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Experts in the field of intellgience, etc. suggest Russian cooperates with Iran and that if you are sharing with Russia, you are most certainly sharing with Iran....so you think in order to fight ISIS & terrorism it is okay to share info that might end up with Iran?
Do you think Obama's nuclear deal with Iran was okay?
Senator Collins is on Morning Joe now, and she said when she was an intern during Watergate, amidst of all the controversy things were getting done. However, this current administration is not showing leadership on what it wants to get done. There hasn't been any policy proposals for the legislature to work on. Just controversy after controversy.
Seriously? That's Democrat 'spin.' You make it sound as though Congress is doing nothing. If that's true, it's YOUR PARTY's obstruction that is the problem.
As to your title question, there is no comparison between this and Watergate. This isn't Watergate!
I have spoken of Watergate in other postings, if one wishes to read my memories of that time.
I will note that Mr. Nixon was an able attorney, and that he had some able attorney's on his side. Much of Watergate involved the courts. For instance, Mr. Nixon vigorously claimed in the courts that he, as President, had a wide scope of 'executive privilege'* and so could not be forced to turn over the tapes and other correspondence in his possession. Many legal scholars back then thought that he could win on this issue.
Alas, in the case United States v. Nixon, the President lost. The Court rule 8-0 (one justice, that had worked for Nixon's administration in the attorney generals office, recused himself). The Court's decision was rendered on July 24, 1974, the tapes were turned over on August 5th (including the 'smoking gun' tape) and Nixon resigned on the 7th.
That decision, of course, still stands. One may well hear of Mr. Trump claiming executive privilege in the coming months (for instance, if he has recordings). He will lose on that issue.
Watergate unfolded slowly (the break-in was in June 1972), and was already news by the time of the election (but Nixon won re-election handily). The investigation heated up in 1973, after Nixon appointed a special investigator (or prosecutor) whom, of course, he subsequently fired when he realized that said special investigator was intent on investigating HIM.
One BIG difference between now and then: in our present culture it appears that everyone has a smart phone that is capable of recording audio. Look at the news story about Mr. McCarthy and Mr. Ryan. They thought they were speaking (and joking, as I believe) in private. Yet, someone had their phone on, seemingly.
Mr. Trump may well be busy erasing tapes (if he has them) as we speak. But I bet that every single person that works in the White House has those smart phones, and that at least some of them regularly, and perhaps secretly, record conversations (either as a keepsake, or to defend themselves down the line).
In Watergate times, no such device existed. Mr. Nixon had a tape system in his office, of course, that automatically turned on anytime anyone spoke. The tapes revealed that, at times, Mr. Nixon would realize that his conversation with some person may have been too revealing (speculating on some illegal course of action), and he would then walk over to where the microphone was located, and say, distinctly and loudly, "But, that would be wrong".
It became quite a catchphrase for comedians and such. "I would like to kill my ex-wife..........But That Would be Wrong!", or such would be said to great laughter.
Recall that one of the Nixon tapes had a suspicious 18-minute gap, which Mr. Nixon's secretary, Ms. Woods, claimed was accidentally erased by her, as she was listening and transcribing the tapes. She even gave a demonstration to the press of how it was 'accidently' done: the way she was stretching her limbs and torso would have impressed a contortionist (the machine was on one table, she at another, and it was funny to see). She was loyal to Mr. Nixon.
Like Watergate, this investigation will proceed slowly and deliberately. Mr. Mueller will not be rushed. The Watergate proceedings (in front of the committees) were long and often deadly dull, with the occasional nugget (like when one of Nixon's aides noted, really incidentally, that the President recorded all conversations).
Such will be the case here.
*Nixon claimed, according to the pleadings: "absolute, unqualified Presidential privilege of immunity from judicial process under all circumstances".
Senator Collins is on Morning Joe now, and she said when she was an intern during Watergate, amidst of all the controversy things were getting done. However, this current administration is not showing leadership on what it wants to get done. There hasn't been any policy proposals for the legislature to work on. Just controversy after controversy.
I have spoken of Watergate in other postings, if one wishes to read my memories of that time.
I will note that Mr. Nixon was an able attorney, and that he had some able attorney's on his side. Much of Watergate involved the courts. For instance, Mr. Nixon vigorously claimed in the courts that he, as President, had a wide scope of 'executive privilege'* and so could not be forced to turn over the tapes and other correspondence in his possession. Many legal scholars back then thought that he could win on this issue.
Alas, in the case United States v. Nixon, the President lost. The Court rule 8-0 (one justice, that had worked for Nixon's administration in the attorney generals office, recused himself). The Court's decision was rendered on July 24, 1974, the tapes were turned over on August 5th (including the 'smoking gun' tape) and Nixon resigned on the 7th.
That decision, of course, still stands. One may well hear of Mr. Trump claiming executive privilege in the coming months (for instance, if he has recordings). He will lose on that issue.
Watergate unfolded slowly (the break-in was in June 1972), and was already news by the time of the election (but Nixon won re-election handily). The investigation heated up in 1973, after Nixon appointed a special investigator (or prosecutor) whom, of course, he subsequently fired when he realized that said special investigator was intent on investigating HIM.
One BIG difference between now and then: in our present culture it appears that everyone has a smart phone that is capable of recording audio. Look at the news story about Mr. McCarthy and Mr. Ryan. They thought they were speaking (and joking, as I believe) in private. Yet, someone had their phone on, seemingly.
Mr. Trump may well be busy erasing tapes (if he has them) as we speak. But I bet that every single person that works in the White House has those smart phones, and that at least some of them regularly, and perhaps secretly, record conversations (either as a keepsake, or to defend themselves down the line).
In Watergate times, no such device existed. Mr. Nixon had a tape system in his office, of course, that automatically turned on anytime anyone spoke. The tapes revealed that, at times, Mr. Nixon would realize that his conversation with some person may have been too revealing (speculating on some illegal course of action), and he would then walk over to where the microphone was located, and say, distinctly and loudly, "But, that would be wrong".
It became quite a catchphrase for comedians and such. "I would like to kill my ex-wife..........But That Would be Wrong!", or such would be said to great laughter.
Recall that one of the Nixon tapes had a suspicious 18-minute gap, which Mr. Nixon's secretary, Ms. Woods, claimed was accidentally erased by her, as she was listening and transcribing the tapes. She even gave a demonstration to the press of how it was 'accidently' done: the way she was stretching her limbs and torso would have impressed a contortionist (the machine was on one table, she at another, and it was funny to see). She was loyal to Mr. Nixon.
Like Watergate, this investigation will proceed slowly and deliberately. Mr. Mueller will not be rushed. The Watergate proceedings (in front of the committees) were long and often deadly dull, with the occasional nugget (like when one of Nixon's aides noted, really incidentally, that the President recorded all conversations).
Such will be the case here.
*Nixon claimed, according to the pleadings: "absolute, unqualified Presidential privilege of immunity from judicial process under all circumstances".
Deleting Twitter Messages instead of recordings.
Last edited by Ibginnie; 05-18-2017 at 07:41 AM..
Reason: fixed formatting
The bipartisan support to form the committee was monumental, good republicans like Howard Baker, Ed Gurney and Lowell Weicker were great along with the democrats. It really made you proud how well our system works. Both sides stepped up to find the truth.
Congresscritters of both parties jealously guarded the perogatives of Congress as an independent Branch of government equal to the Executive. Regardless of the party of the president, a Senator did not consider his role subservient to the presidency.
So if there was a problem in the White House, it was the role of Congress to sort it out, because that is the Constitutional role and power of the Congress. And all Congresscritters felt that way.
We know the 'faithful' believe Trump's continual lies and missteps should be allowed to go without mention but that just ain't gonna happen. Sorry if having a liar called a liar upsets you.
Trump's no one special, he'll pick what he plants like everyone else.
LOL, imagine that, a "faithful" Democrat thinks he's not being manipulated.
In my humble view the similarities to H20gate and now is more of a mindset within the Oval Office.
It is quite prossible that DT did not really know much about what the Russia thing is about at the beginning. He quite probably had "trusted" advisors that got him intangled. We know that DT apparently really likes Flynn and has probably put himself out on a limb because of that. We know from history, that the "plumbers" were directed by 2 very close aides to Nixon, with whom he was said to have been very loyal to.
Much of H20gate was really just the obstruction of investigation/justice issues that came up. Nixon would probably have survived the fallout from the Pentagon Papers/Ellsberg robbery and break-in at the DNC---plausible deniability. But once he started to go along with protecting the people involved in the break-ins he was screwed.
Then there is the drip- drip- drip of info. Same thing, although quicker now because of social media, MSM and ALTS.
Another similarity may be that of another generational/cultureal shift occurring.
That mid-late 60s saw the civil rights, anti-war ideas that helped shape our views. We were nearing the end of the US being the bastion of industrialization left from being relatively undamaged from WW2. There was indeed a great deal of social and economic angst building. A mere 6-10 years later, we were in the worst ecomic mess since the Depression, other countries were becoming industrial giants were starting to exert the influence that naturally follows.
We, the boomers, are nearing the end of our dominance of the political/social field. Our kids, the millennials and X'rs have a different view of things just as we had a different view of the world as that of our parents and grandparents.
History does repeat itself, time and time, mostly because human nature really doesn't evolve as quickly as what man creates or destroys.
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