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I think that anyone that doesn't have a special needs (mentally impaired like Downs Syndrome etc.) person in their life lacks the experience to really understand the gravity of this discussion.
And I don't mean some cousin you see twice a year at the Holidays but having to live with and arrange care for them 24-7.
It's the difference between some breezy hypothetical and the hard reality of lifetime care for the mentally handicapped and their potential offspring.
Also, at what point of mental impairment can they actually consent to intercourse? A whole other can of worms.
I think that anyone that doesn't have a special needs (mentally impaired like Downs Syndrome etc.) person in their life lacks the experience to really understand the gravity of this discussion.
And I don't mean some cousin you see twice a year at the Holidays but having to live with and arrange care for them 24-7.
It's the difference between some breezy hypothetical and the hard reality of lifetime care for the mentally handicapped and their potential offspring.
Also, at what point of mental impairment can they actually consent to intercourse? A whole other can of worms.
Margaret Sanger advocated sterilization of "undesirables" long before the Nazis did. Read the date of Sanger's The Function of Sterilization: October 1926
"The Question of race betterment is one of immediate concern, and I am glad to say that the United States Government has already taken certain steps to control the equality of our population through the drastic immigration laws.
There is a quota restriction by which only so many people from each country are allowed to enter our shores each month. It is the latest method adopted by our government to solve the population problem. Most people are convinced that this policy is right, and agree that we should slow down on the number as well as the kind of immigrants coming here.
But while we close our gates to the co-called “undesirables†from other countries, we make no attempt to discourage or cut down the rapid multiplication of the unfit and undesirable at home."
"Moreover, Sanger also held some rather forward-thinking views about the oppression of Black people, especially for a white feminist in the early 20th century. In an oft-ignored interview with Earl Conrad for the Chicago Defender in 1945, Sanger said:
"Discrimination is a world-wide thing. It has to be opposed everywhere. That is why I feel the Negro’s plight here is linked with that of the oppressed around the globe. The big answer, as I see it, is the education of the white man. The white man is the problem. It is the same as with the Nazis. We must change the white attitudes. That is where it lies.
"In that same article, Sanger described an encounter with an “anti-Negro white manâ€:
"When we first started out an anti-Negro white man offered me $10,000 if I started in Harlem first. His idea was simply to cut down the number of Negroes. ‘Spread it as far as you can among them,’ he said. That is, of course, not our idea. I turned him down. But that is an example of how vicious some people can be about this thing.
"Not exactly the words of a woman hell-bent on exterminating Black people, are they?"
(My emphasis - more @ the URL)
Sanger's emphasis was right - she wanted to empower families & women on spacing & timing of births. & she won that battle with the marketing of oral BC.
Yah, the Nazis borrowed the sterilization notion from the US - from CA & other state's legislation - not from Sanger - although she did talk about it.
Sanger was on board with the sterilization of "undesirables" (HER term) LONG before the Nazis adopted the ideology.
PP has had a eugenics-based goal from its very inception to now. I posted a link to Sanger's 1926 'sterilization' speech which states "race betterment" (HER term) as a goal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent Margaret Sanger advocated sterilization of "undesirables" long before the Nazis did. Read the date of Sanger's The Function of Sterilization: October 1926
"The Question of race betterment is one of immediate concern, and I am glad to say that the United States Government has already taken certain steps to control the equality of our population through the drastic immigration laws.
There is a quota restriction by which only so many people from each country are allowed to enter our shores each month. It is the latest method adopted by our government to solve the population problem. Most people are convinced that this policy is right, and agree that we should slow down on the number as well as the kind of immigrants coming here.
But while we close our gates to the co-called “undesirables†from other countries, we make no attempt to discourage or cut down the rapid multiplication of the unfit and undesirable at home."
The Nazis merely hitched a ride on Sanger's ideology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Sanger was on board with the sterilization of "undesirables" (HER term) LONG before the Nazis adopted the ideology.
PP has had a eugenics-based goal from its very inception to now. I posted a link to Sanger's 1926 'sterilization' speech which states "race betterment" (HER term) as a goal.
Nah. If you look closely @ the quote of her speech above (it's likely so-called), you'll see that she's mocking the notion of undesirables, @ least in the first instance. Yah, she did campaign (fundraising) with eugenicists - that set of notions was all the rage in nationalistic circles in the US (& the West) @ the time - & that's where she was talking & lecturing & writing & raising funds. She didn't start in eugenics - she was concerned that working women were dying of stress, overwork & bearing too many children too close together.
She worked with whoever was available - TMK, she didn't care if patients were Black or European or Caucasian or what-have-you.
"The Aryan race was a racial grouping term used in the period from the late 19th century to the mid-20th century to describe multiple peoples. It has been variously used to describe all Indo-Europeans in general (spanning from India to Europe), the original Aryan people specifically in Persia, and most controversially through Nazi misinterpretation, the Nordic or Germanic peoples.[1] The term derives from the Aryan people, from Persia, who spoke a language similar to those that have been found in Europe.[2]
"While originally meant simply as a neutral ethno-linguistic classification, from the late 19th century onwards the term Aryan race has been used by people who promoted ideas about racial hierarchy, like the Nazis, who thought that the Germanic peoples were, in comparison to other peoples in the world, predominately descended from an ancient master race, whom they called "Aryan".[2]Aryanism developed as a racial ideology based on this idea."
(My emphasis - more @ the URL)
So, the Memory Hole hasn't been invented nor put into operation quite yet - although the USSR did have a version of it. The racial superiority Volk have been @ this game since the late 19th century, predating Sanger's work in BC.
"The Question of race betterment is one of immediate concern, and I am glad to say that the United States Government has already taken certain steps to control the equality of our population through the drastic immigration laws.
There is a quota restriction by which only so many people from each country are allowed to enter our shores each month. It is the latest method adopted by our government to solve the population problem. Most people are convinced that this policy is right, and agree that we should slow down on the number as well as the kind of immigrants coming here.
But while we close our gates to the so-called “undesirables” from other countries, we make no attempt to discourage or cut down the rapid multiplication of the unfit and undesirable at home."
The bolded text should clarify Sanger's ideology for you. Sanger was all about sterilizing and limiting the reproduction of those she herself called "the unfit and undesirable."
Throughout most of the United States, an IQ of below 70 is the threshold at which a person is considered mentally incompetent. Persons with an IQ under 70 are held to different legal standards and are not punished at the same level as a person with a higher IQ. In cases of the death penalty, for example, a person with a proven IQ of 70 or lower is usually considered exempt from execution.
This leads to an obvious question: if we have already set the legal standard that people with an IQ of 70 or below are mentally incompetent, should we allow them to have children? If we allow them to have children, aren't we condemning their children to a life of poor parental care, which inevitably leads to multiple issues, not only for the child but also for society? After all, who will raise their children if the parent can't?
If you don't agree with the idea that low IQ people should be prohibited from having children, then explain how allowing them to have children is workable for society.
And for perspective, 2 percent of the US population, 6.5 million people, have an IQ of 70 or below.
Have to think this is some sort of troll post, true?
If not, Nazi Doctor Mengele would have been right there with you. That was one of the central tenets of the whole philosophy of keeping the Master race pure; not only along racial lines, but also the keep the IQ average high.
"The Question of race betterment is one of immediate concern, and I am glad to say that the United States Government has already taken certain steps to control the equality of our population through the drastic immigration laws.
There is a quota restriction by which only so many people from each country are allowed to enter our shores each month. It is the latest method adopted by our government to solve the population problem. Most people are convinced that this policy is right, and agree that we should slow down on the number as well as the kind of immigrants coming here.
But while we close our gates to the so-called “undesirables” from other countries, we make no attempt to discourage or cut down the rapid multiplication of the unfit and undesirable at home."
The bolded text should clarify Sanger's ideology for you. Sanger was all about sterilizing and limiting the reproduction of those she herself called "the unfit and undesirable."
You're trying to sugarcoat the very ugly underlying tenet of PP: eugenics. Why?
Here's at least part of what she meant by the "undesirables from other countries":
keep the doors of Immigration closed to the entrance of certain aliens whose condition is known to be detrimental to the stamina of the race, such as feeble-minded, idiots, morons, insane, syphiletic, epileptic, criminal, professional prostitutes, and others in this class barred from entrance by the Immigration Laws of 1924. https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/...Doc=129037.xml
So, maybe she disliked Asian people, or maybe not. I don't know much about her, but your own links and quotes of her do not show her to be a particularly bad person. Get better links if you want to show that.
There is nothing innately wrong with eugenics by the way. I'm glad I discovered another historical figure I genuinely feel affection for, who seemed to care about all people equally. Thank you for introducing me to her.
Have to think this is some sort of troll post, true?
If not, Nazi Doctor Mengele would have been right there with you. That was one of the central tenets of the whole philosophy of keeping the Master race pure; not only along racial lines, but also the keep the IQ average high.
I never suggested forced sterilization. I purposely tried to avoid talking about the methods to reduce low IQ from having children, because I wanted the discussion to be about whether or not it was moral for mentally retarded persons to have children.
I personally think that we should offer monetary incentives to both low IQ persons and to the parents of low IQ children for sterilization. The problem with that idea is that there is a huge amount of resistance to the very idea that mentally retarded people shouldn't be having kids. Many people in this thread have shown that they think it's just fine for people who have the mental capacity of a child to have children of their own. I think that's insane, yet many of them think I'm the one suggesting something crazy.
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Sometimes a great notion
