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Old 07-28-2017, 02:17 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,687,712 times
Reputation: 14050

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Isn't that the fault of the Obama administration? High insurance premiums are, at least. \.
If you start out with a false premise you will end up the same way.

Repeat after me - insurance premiums (and overall costs) went up LESS per year under Obama than they did under GW Bush. The numbers are roughly 5-8% per year under Obama and 10% under GW.

BUT: 10's of millions more are covered.
The coverage for most everyone is better (no turning down for pre-existing, etc).
Your kids can stay on your policy longer.
There are actually standards as to the health care you must provide (no selling of "junk" policies)
No lifetime caps.....

So, which is better? The status quo under GW or the ACA. I'd suggest that most reasonable people would claim there is no comparison - the ACA rocks (relatively).

Now - it's a fact that we have to lower costs. But that's a LOT bigger job than Obama could have done without bipartisan support. Keep in mind that lower costs are against what many want - that is, a health care billionaire (Romney, Frist, many more)....they don't want heavier regs on prices.

Big Pharma doesn't want lower prices either.

So the cost curve is another fight altogether.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Sector 001
15,946 posts, read 12,297,747 times
Reputation: 16109
The problem is that the wealthy have become so wealthy they price middle class out of housing in many cities... They buy up the property and rent it out, which further concentrates wealth... Real estate is going the same route as farming, with large operations buying up property and concentrating ownership.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:40 PM
 
Location: USA
18,502 posts, read 9,172,720 times
Reputation: 8532
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
The problem is that the wealthy have become so wealthy they price middle class out of housing in many cities... They buy up the property and rent it out, which further concentrates wealth... Real estate is going the same route as farming, with large operations buying up property and concentrating ownership.
Exactly. We have rebuilt medieval Europe, complete with a landed aristocracy that owns nearly everything.

I'm actually thinking about moving to Europe for more freedom and opportunity. So much for American exceptionalism.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,902,520 times
Reputation: 11259
Do any of you live in the real world where you reside and work with middle class people every day?
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:47 PM
 
30,182 posts, read 11,821,267 times
Reputation: 18698
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker View Post
No, but you end up having to pay for their food stamps, section 8, etc. Walmart alone costs the taxpayers billions in welfare for their workers. This is practically corporate welfare even if indirectly.
I agree that companies like Walmart should not get away with that. That loophole needs to close.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:57 PM
 
30,182 posts, read 11,821,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
That seems a bit made up. But hey - look at Sweden or for that matter Germany. You can in fact have a healthy economy that serves the interests of the investors and the workers both.
No its the logical extension or conclusion. Look at the most popular leader of the left the last couple years, Bernie. He is a socialist. Yes he gives it a softer name but he is what he is. When you see countries like Cuba or Venezuela they moved in the direction they did because of anger towards capitalism and companies and wealth inequality and moved to the extreme making it impossible for wealth inequality to exist. Everyone is at the bottom. N. Korea is another example. Communism or Socialism whatever you want to call it.

Its a dangerous game. You could end up like Sweden or Cuba. I think we are drifting now in the direction of a 3rd world nation so I don't see us playing with socialism and ending up like Sweden.
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Old 07-28-2017, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,811,485 times
Reputation: 24863
I believe that free market capitalism with business regulated sufficiently to prevent monopoly and speculation in any shape of form is the way to prosperity for most with minimum desperately poor and even fewer hyper wealthy. The market will control prices using supply and demand and the investors will have to be satisfied with whatever profit the market allows.


Government can help obtain this goal by supporting small savers and investors with loan guarantees and insurance. Government can also provide universal health care and low cost education to whatever level the individual aspires. One of the ways to pay for this is a Universal Income Tax based on summing an individual's income and creating an income scale for the entire population. the amount equal to the 90th percentile (percentile not percentage) is set as the base deductible. The tax is placed in a steely progressive manner on the top 10 percent of the population.


This would effectively provide the bottom 90% with more money to save and invest while the compound interest gains of the wealthy are used to provide national defense and government services, principally health care (not insurance) for everyone regardless of economic status.


I do not see this as socialist. I consider it free markets with business regulation. This will benefit all of us not just the disassociated hyper wealth classes.
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Old 07-28-2017, 05:20 PM
 
143 posts, read 98,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I believe that free market capitalism with business regulated sufficiently to prevent monopoly and speculation in any shape of form is the way to prosperity for most with minimum desperately poor and even fewer hyper wealthy. The market will control prices using supply and demand and the investors will have to be satisfied with whatever profit the market allows.


Government can help obtain this goal by supporting small savers and investors with loan guarantees and insurance. Government can also provide universal health care and low cost education to whatever level the individual aspires. One of the ways to pay for this is a Universal Income Tax based on summing an individual's income and creating an income scale for the entire population. the amount equal to the 90th percentile (percentile not percentage) is set as the base deductible. The tax is placed in a steely progressive manner on the top 10 percent of the population.


This would effectively provide the bottom 90% with more money to save and invest while the compound interest gains of the wealthy are used to provide national defense and government services, principally health care (not insurance) for everyone regardless of economic status.


I do not see this as socialist. I consider it free markets with business regulation. This will benefit all of us not just the disassociated hyper wealth classes.
It can go "too far" though, and progress to malignant/cancerous crony-capitalism and crony monopolyism, as we are seeing now. Most people are broke, living paycheck-to-paycheck, or poor in 2017 America, and so the economy is grinding to a snail's pace (people are NOT spending other than on "the absolute necessities" such as rent, food, utilities, cell phone, etc). I was recently reading that auto sales are down, and another article by Capital One stating that defaults on lines of credit are also up. Over in the youth economy, student loan default rates are also rising. In the real-estate market, houses are way overpriced, and rents are ridiculously high versus what the renter "gets" in return. The whole situation is a mess

The so-called "Trump economy" touted by right-wingers is false, it's a dog and pony show and totally artificial/temporary, just like with Carrier "suddenly" back-tracking on their promised "Trump jobs" and recently announcing they're laying off their workers "anyway" , i predict all the other companies that Trump has recently "called out" publicly (getting them, via the "pressure" of public opinion/media attention, to "promise" this or that for American workers) will simply fire their workers/close their plant(s) "anyway" as soon as the media turns the cameras/attention away from them. I mean let's get real; these big companies have no "loyalty" or "honor". The "real" economy is on the ropes, it won't survive another major hit like 2008.
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Old 07-28-2017, 05:46 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,641,728 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Actually it's "progressivism" that is taking us backward. Socialism was once a thing of the past. The "progressives" are trying to restore it.
you might want to try reading before your knee jerk response.
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Old 07-28-2017, 05:57 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,641,728 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
America has had no real revolution in 200 years, while other major nations has. A revolution shuffles the classes.
nonsense talk.
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