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I've no idea how many of the protestors that came to Charlottesville were "National Socialists" or KKK compared to non-Nazi/KKK alt-righters or other less radical groups. Likewise, I've no idea how many "antifa's" (a group I'd never heard of until yesterday) came to town.
What DID strike me though from the coverage is that most of the ordinary citizens or those not prepared for "battle" in some way appeared to be among the counter-protestors. Here, too, the coverage of protestors in videos bragging that they were coming to a liberal city to take over the streets was telling. No mention at all of General Lee or his statue.
More, I've no doubt that the vast majority of the good citizens of Charlottesville who DID want to keep the statue in Emancipation Park are in no way a "Nazi" nor "racist" and, more, were appalled at those who came to town in their name to stir up trouble.
This isn't the first time the radical right has descended on Charlottesville. There was a May rally led by Richard Spencer (an alt-right white nationalist) and the July rally consisted of 50 members of the KKK. The local Republican view of all this:
Unfortunately, these groups are bragging that they aren't yet done with Charlottesville and will be back again - in even greater numbers.
Just think if the media had actually reported it in the way that you wrote this post. Instead of labeling every single person there as a Nazi or KKK or white supremacist, you understand that there were people there on the right who are NOT those things.
But that doesn't sell stories and rile up the left to get them to start 300 different posts about the "racists taking over, we told you! omg@!!!1!l2jhkl32;h32" on forums and in comments and on social media, does it?
The media has led just about everyone, on right and left, right down the path that they wanted to take people, and all those people willingly followed, like sheep. No one bothered to actually look up what really happened, how many there were "Nazis carrying flags", who did actually start the violence, what the hell were the cops doing, who did have a permit, why did the city violate the Constitutional Rights of a group of people who legally obtained permit and permission to hold a rally to, as it stated, protest the removal of the Lee statue and essentially tell the left go stuff it.
We didn't get that.
We got hysterics. Played out all over the internet, even on this very thread.
That was the reason for me asking that initial question that drove some people in to defensiveness. No one wanted to actually talk about the truth, they just wanted to say "NAZI" over and over again.
I talked about how the media uses words to wage wars, how the left uses words, euphamisms. I then proceeded to write several posts using that very tactic.
Look what happened.
You see how easy it is?
Because most of the people, left or right, are not interested in reality. Every single one wants to freak out and push towards whatever agenda it is that they're hoping for.
In truth, I actually believe that people on the left, and the extremists on the right WANT a race war. I truly believe that they do. Not everyone on the left and not everyone on the right, but when you can't even ask a simple question to get to the truth of the events without someone calling you a Nazi sympathizer, it's pretty evident that there's some people who actually want this to happen.
Yes, there were some KKK and Nazis and white supremacists there. That does NOT mean that everyone on the right that was there are any of those, nor does it mean that everyone on the right who voted for Trump is a Nazi or KKK or white supremacist. But you see how the media took this and ran with it and many on the left are doing so, as well. There's an agenda, for sure.
I have to ask the people on City Data: Do you really want a race war? Because with the rhetoric, that's what you're going to get. You know that the KKK and Nazis and white supremacists would gladly have one, they've never denied that.
Those on the left who pretend to be morally superior but then push this exaggerated story, is that what you want? All those signs at the Trump Tower telling white people that their grand children are going to be brown, the signs that say "we will replace you" the social media posts stating that white people should be killed or exterminated, etc...is that what you support?
Because if you don't accept talking about the reality, to the point that you can't even answer a simple question to start that conversation, what is anyone supposed to think but that you do?
Do you want a race war? Because this is how you get a race war. I'm not threatening a race war, for the comprehension impaired, I don't want one. I'm asking you, do you want one, because everything that you're doing is going to get you one.
I think rather than stating their likely end game, and scaring people away, we should keep it more digestible.
The Left is authoritarian and wants to, and has been, dilute the white American demographic that is stopping them from instituting permanent one party rule. This will result in authoritarianism and as everyone knows under authoritarianism the sky's the limit on misdeeds..
I'm really interested in this.
So - I know a guy because he was in the same biz as me. We met once.
Yet he lives in Southern VA. and is as conservative as you can be - and now has lots of brown people in his extended family.
How did I - sitting up here in my nice New England Beach Town, accomplish this? Perhaps I have amazing powers?
You'd think that "social norms" down south would have made these things impossible.
I think you confuse "forecast" with "action". It's fairly clear - if are well traveled, that there quite a bit of mixing of the melting pot here in the states. Looking at that, one would foresee that we will eventually be more like Hawaii than Russia in terms of "purity" (actually, Russia has mongols, brown muslims and lots of other races, but you get the idea).
Noticing that something is happening has little to do with causation. If I notice that the days are getting shorter here in the northern hemisphere, that doesn't mean I have the power to make it happen.
Trump is so weak that he is unable to lead the country through this issue. Trump is making it worse and it's starting to take on a life of its own. He could have put a lid on it the first day but he's not a leader, he's a divider.
All eyes are on Trump and he failed bigly. Even the Republicans in congress think that Trump is a big joke.
Look up the Night of the Long Knives. This is when Hitler purged his supporters of all the useful idiots, the ideologues, the folks that really were for a more socialist form of government and economy.
What Hitler built was much closer to Italy's fascist government and economy, where private property and corporations are allowed, but the government can have a strong influence over them but don't overtly reap the profits of that industry.
But I agree that you're playing games which is weak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1
LOL that is the exact definition of Socialism. Politically the Nazis were big government progressives that would be moderators/progressives on a normal American left to right scale. But the Nazis were authoritarian socialist rather than democratic socialist plus they were German ethnic identitarian. Nazis also weren't really nationalist but fascist.
Now as far as the fringe on the alt-right who are Nazi-followers Nazi admirers, they are misguided.
The Nazis and Hitler were actually not really pro-white or really even pro-German. The Nazis caused the death of millions of whites, including Germans and mass destruction in Europe and soiled nationalism and white nations going further. Hitler and the Nazis are indefensible.
American politics have nothing to do with Nazis and the fringe on the alt-right should just forget about associating with or admiring the Nazis. Likewise many of the alt-left are communist but at least they are smart enough to hide that they are admirers of communism and Stalinism.
No. The two forms of government (fascism vs socialism) are antithetically different. Fascism is, as you note, authoritarian in nature with government as the central control. In socialism, as practiced say in a country like Norway, the government is subordinate to the people. Seriously.
The Norwegians take our ideal of "We the People" and make it work. Using a "socialist" approach though nothing that Karl Marx would ever recognize.
Do people actually believe that only one side was at fault for this mayhem? Seriously?
Yes, actually I do, and and anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that this is all on the white supremacist and KKK ignorant dead enders, who were in the streets with torches, clubs and shields, chanting the following:
Jews will not replace us!
Blood and Soil!
Whose Streets? - Our Streets!
And various variations of the N word!
So do you or anyone else think this sounds like a peaceful protest and wasn't the reason for others being there to protest this nonsense?
The Nazis lost WWII and the White supremacists lost the civil war and neither group now has the laws on their side either.
So if Nazis and the KKK and White Supremacists show up in your town, are you just going to let them spew their garbage and go about your business? Pat them on the head and consider it all done?
I'm not.
You don't believe in lawful protests and free speech?
They've done their little rallies for years and everyone just ignored them.
I'm a Jew, and if the Nazi's or KKK come to my town for a protest, yes, I'll just stay home. They are a very miniscule and irrelevant part of the country. Showing up to counter them gives them a nationwide stage and free press. Not to mention, nothing good would happen.
BLM and Antifa should learn this. But they both WANT a fight.
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke
A few years ago I would have agreed with you. But the Nazis and KKK have been emboldened by Trump's election, whether or not Trump meant for that to happen. David Duke said it himself. All of these evil movements start somewhere and the White Supremacists are trying to nurture theirs now.
I won't stay home or stay quiet if they come to my town.
Just think if the media had actually reported it in the way that you wrote this post. Instead of labeling every single person there as a Nazi or KKK or white supremacist, you understand that there were people there on the right who are NOT those things.
But that doesn't sell stories and rile up the left to get them to start 300 different posts about the "racists taking over, we told you! omg@!!!1!l2jhkl32;h32" on forums and in comments and on social media, does it?
The media has led just about everyone, on right and left, right down the path that they wanted to take people, and all those people willingly followed, like sheep. No one bothered to actually look up what really happened, how many there were "Nazis carrying flags", who did actually start the violence, what the hell were the cops doing, who did have a permit, why did the city violate the Constitutional Rights of a group of people who legally obtained permit and permission to hold a rally to, as it stated, protest the removal of the Lee statue and essentially tell the left go stuff it.
We didn't get that.
We got hysterics. Played out all over the internet, even on this very thread.
That was the reason for me asking that initial question that drove some people in to defensiveness. No one wanted to actually talk about the truth, they just wanted to say "NAZI" over and over again.
I talked about how the media uses words to wage wars, how the left uses words, euphamisms. I then proceeded to write several posts using that very tactic.
Look what happened.
You see how easy it is?
Because most of the people, left or right, are not interested in reality. Every single one wants to freak out and push towards whatever agenda it is that they're hoping for.
In truth, I actually believe that people on the left, and the extremists on the right WANT a race war. I truly believe that they do. Not everyone on the left and not everyone on the right, but when you can't even ask a simple question to get to the truth of the events without someone calling you a Nazi sympathizer, it's pretty evident that there's some people who actually want this to happen.
Yes, there were some KKK and Nazis and white supremacists there. That does NOT mean that everyone on the right that was there are any of those, nor does it mean that everyone on the right who voted for Trump is a Nazi or KKK or white supremacist. But you see how the media took this and ran with it and many on the left are doing so, as well. There's an agenda, for sure.
I have to ask the people on City Data: Do you really want a race war? Because with the rhetoric, that's what you're going to get. You know that the KKK and Nazis and white supremacists would gladly have one, they've never denied that.
Those on the left who pretend to be morally superior but then push this exaggerated story, is that what you want? All those signs at the Trump Tower telling white people that their grand children are going to be brown, the signs that say "we will replace you" the social media posts stating that white people should be killed or exterminated, etc...is that what you support?
Because if you don't accept talking about the reality, to the point that you can't even answer a simple question to start that conversation, what is anyone supposed to think but that you do?
Do you want a race war? Because this is how you get a race war. I'm not threatening a race war, for the comprehension impaired, I don't want one. I'm asking you, do you want one, because everything that you're doing is going to get you one.
So it's the left's fault that people are supporting Nazi's? What happened to the party of personal responsibility?
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