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Vehemently disagree. The further away from the people it's government is, the less say they have. Remember, these legislators are supposed to be working for us. This kind of thinking is way more scary to me than any other political leaning.
Without launching into debate… I prefer a party and platform that is foremost international, next national, and least of all state/local. Why? Because I think of myself foremost as a citizen of the world – or a world in which national borders are purely incidental (and accidental). With my neighbors I have parlously little in common. Emotionally I feel closer bond to persons in Boston, NYC, DC, LA and SF… but I live in the small-town Midwest. Thus, if theoretically I’m closer to my local legislators, my views differ so starkly from the prevailing ones, that any effort to petition the local government will be met only with polite dismissal.
To give a specific example, I care vastly more, that the smart kids in Palo Alto and Manhattan and Fairfax County (VA) will do a great job representing the US at the International Mathematics Olympiad, than whether my neighbors' kids are even taught how to count.
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Originally Posted by fisheye
I was a Democrat for most of my life and now a Trump fan. See; Trump promised that he would improve our lot in life....
I mistrust any leader – political, business or otherwise – who claims to “improve our lot in life”.
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Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
...Trump won, not because he's Trump-even most of his supporters (myself included) don't like him as a person. Trump won because he ran on A TRADITIONAL DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM!!!
You're right - absolutely right. Add the influence of religious/social conservatives, and you'll have an eerily accurate picture of the "middle America" voter who seems to be prized today.
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Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
In short, the Democratic party turned on and abandoned their base. They became the (or perhaps the other) party of globalists and crony capitalists. ...
Unabashed "globalist" here... huge fan of the United Nations and the European Union. I'd like to see a Democratic candidate like Adlai Stevenson, or in a pinch, Gary Hart.
I say the Democrats should keep doing what they're doing especially when the cameras are rolling. The reason why you have all of these Republican governors is because people want law and order and they know the democrats ignore the law. The cameras tell the story. Viewers don't need no stinkin' talking heads to know what's going on.
As far as Capitol Hill goes, I don't see much difference between Do Nothing Republicans and Do Nothing Democrats.
1) I don't know that there are any Dems in congress smart enough to recognize that, and do the right thing for the party as opposed to marching in lockstep with party politics.
2) The media would crucify any Dem that attempted to legislate like an adult.
3 problems -- the Democrats and Leftists have plainly announced that ANY Democrat who votes in favor of Tax Reform WILL be punished. Anyone remember how the Democrats turned on the Arkansas Senator and assured his defeat early in the Obama Administration?
They said it was "impossible" to raise the GDP to 4% -- they were wrong. Trump promises 4% growth. Economists say no way. |CNN Money - October 2016 Donald Trump has a big promise for the U.S. economy: 4% growth.
No chance, say 11 economists surveyed by CNNMoney. And a paper published Tuesday by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco backs them up.
"No, pigs do not fly," says Robert Brusca, senior economist at FAO Economics, a research firm. "Donald Trump is dreaming."
The Republican presidential nominee made the promise in a speech in New York in September. "I believe it's time to establish a national goal of reaching 4% economic growth," he said.
Since the Great Recession, growth has averaged 2%. Brusca and the other economists surveyed say that 4% growth is impossible, or at least highly unlikely.
GDP go up when we Export more than we import ..... and that's exactly what we have done for the last 200 days. Healthcare Legislation will come, unfortunately it's likely to be painful when it didn't have to be.
ACA is unsustainable since the ObamaTeam failed to fund it and the Courts have ruled that Congress MUST do so. The Democrats refuse to even come to the table - so we wait. In the meantime - Jobs and the Economy are improving.
I like what Trump has accomplished.
President Obama started out with a Democratic Congress and they sat on their thumbs and did nothing. Or, at least, they did not accomplish what the President wanted to accomplish. After they lost the Congress; then it was too late. Right now Trump has the majority and they are blowing it; they are wasting time and, before too long, it is going to be too late. When it is too late you can't say: We should have done this - then it's too late to rewrite history.
But, like I stated before; it is a great opportunity for some Democrats. They have to break ranks if they are going to survive. Many on both the left and right are willing to throw Trump under the bus; he needs a few good friends. He might even be 'needy'?
Democrats need a plan and they have no plan other than an offensive operation to depose Trump. They need to tell us/show us how they are going to improve our lives and that is their failing.
I was a Democrat for most of my life and now a Trump fan. See; Trump promised that he would improve our lot in life. I know that many find fault with that; but what is wrong with a goal of making America better? We were getting attacked by cheap labor and many times it is illegal labor. Then we have the pending automation on top of losing jobs to open borders. This was a no win for our workers.
I was told back in the 1960's: Never vote for a Republican because they only care about big business. I watched over the years as the Democrats switched from supporting the private sector unions to only supporting public sector jobs which were like a black hole to our tax dollars. Now it is like the Party is in bed with Silicone Valley and Hollywood/the media and they could care less about average Americans (the ones that voted them into office).
If the Democrats want to turn their Party around; they have to again look towards the blue collar and workers that once supported the Party - and they cannot lie and make pledges they never plan to deliver. Trump's supporters feel that he is trying; even if his own Party is not helping.
Look at what Hillary did in the last election; she insulted the very people that built the Democratic Party. Many on these forums continue to insult the very same people that use to be the Democratic base. I would like to say: 'How stupid can they get ' - but that is doing the same as Democrats that never want to win another election. If you want another win you will find a way to make all of our lives better without taxing us to death. You also have to find another talking point other than Trump is bad! You might even have to find a way to work together to make our Country great again!
It's hard for me to talk about the Trump vs. Hillary thing, to be honest. I don't like Trump at all, but I agree with you that Hillary often seemed very condescending towards blue collar folks. I don't know if that was what was really in her heart - some who know her say that she is, in person, a very kind, warm person who cares deeply for others - but it did sound bad, and it wasn't smart. You can't treat people with scorn and derision and still hope to win their hearts, minds, and votes. Then again, Trump said that he loves "the poorly educated." I wonder if anyone who supports him found that insulting. It certainly didn't sound like a compliment.
There's a lot to unpack about unions in the private sector and what happened to them. I don't think their demise was the direct result of anything the Democrats did, but I do think that we need to be a lot more outspoken in supporting unions and encouraging their growth. There's just one thing. There are many, many voters who could benefit from having their workplaces unionized, and no Republican I can think of supports that. I don't know what Trump thinks of it. As far as I know, he has been silent on the issue.
Regarding the immigration issue, I knew a woman, oh, maybe 10 or so years ago, who was a staunch conservative, yet she was also a strong advocate of doing nothing about illegal immigration, because it would "hurt business." She didn't care about the fact that American workers were being displaced, or about the fact that the immigrants were being exploited as a source of cheap labor. I think it's a problem, but for the most part, I don't think of the immigrants, legal or otherwise, as the enemy. The crackdown should fall most harshly on the people who hire them. I think illegal immigrants who commit violent crimes should be punished as severely as anyone else. Sure, deport, but if they keep coming back, lock them up. People who have come here and build a life over the years, never harming anyone? Leave them alone. Some of them even own businesses. Leave the Dreamers alone. They were brought here as children, had no choice in the matter, and are, for all practical purposes, American kids.
As far as the "Trump is bad" thing, well...getting back to the issues is supposed to be the main point of this thread, and I have tried to avoid talking about him unless it was absolutely necessary. I really don't want it to become a bash-fest, for anyone. Plenty of that already.
In short, the Democratic party turned on and abandoned their base. They became the (or perhaps the other) party of globalists and crony capitalists. They embraced criminal aliens to the detriment of American workers. They embraced criminals and thugs over law enforcement and crime victims. They support refugee resettlement over the interests of American citizens. They defend crimes against Americans by Islamists in the name of "diversity". They played identity politics and divided this country as opposed to focusing on what unites us. They blame white males on all the world's problems, instead of accepting responsibility.
The American people didn't abandon the Democratic party-it abandoned them! And I see no sign that they have learned a thing. Instead they seem to be doubling down on the stupidity of the last year-or last several years. They are going increasingly to extremes, embracing violence and intolerance and defending those who practice it...in the name of "liberalism". The Democratic party wouldn't recognize classic liberalism if it bit them on the azz. They have become the party with no ideas, no solutions, no inspiration. All they can do is whine about Trump.
It's hard for me to talk about the Trump vs. Hillary thing, to be honest. I don't like Trump at all, but I agree with you that Hillary often seemed very condescending towards blue collar folks. I don't know if that was what was really in her heart - some who know her say that she is, in person, a very kind, warm person who cares deeply for others - but it did sound bad, and it wasn't smart. You can't treat people with scorn and derision and still hope to win their hearts, minds, and votes. Then again, Trump said that he loves "the poorly educated." I wonder if anyone who supports him found that insulting. It certainly didn't sound like a compliment.
During the election there were many stories about how the Clintons felt about the Secrete Service and police. There was even the story about her using the 'N' word. Whether these were true or not; she did not come off as nice and she did come off condescending. Even in the few appearances that she made; she did not mingle with the crowd unless it was strictly controlled. Trump got down in the pits; he mingled and shook hands. He praised his crowds and the people protecting him. He still does a better job than Bill Clinton or Obama paying homage to our service men and women, police and emergency workers.
As far as the term 'poorly educated' he was giving credit to everybody - including the 'highly educated' after his win: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ated/80860078/. Of course the left said we were all poorly educated or worse!
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Originally Posted by Catgirl64
There's a lot to unpack about unions in the private sector and what happened to them. I don't think their demise was the direct result of anything the Democrats did, but I do think that we need to be a lot more outspoken in supporting unions and encouraging their growth. There's just one thing. There are many, many voters who could benefit from having their workplaces unionized, and no Republican I can think of supports that. I don't know what Trump thinks of it. As far as I know, he has been silent on the issue.
I am a retired 30 year Teamster. All unions in the private sector lost ground over the last 30 to 40 years. At the same time civil service unions prospered - but tax payers are having a difficult time coughing up the money to fund these pension. We need equality between the public and private sectors and, unfortunately, the disparity continues to grow. All we hear are cities that are going broke. Sooner or later somebody has to pay the piper. There are not easy answers; but a thriving economy helps all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64
Regarding the immigration issue, I knew a woman, oh, maybe 10 or so years ago, who was a staunch conservative, yet she was also a strong advocate of doing nothing about illegal immigration, because it would "hurt business." She didn't care about the fact that American workers were being displaced, or about the fact that the immigrants were being exploited as a source of cheap labor. I think it's a problem, but for the most part, I don't think of the immigrants, legal or otherwise, as the enemy. The crackdown should fall most harshly on the people who hire them. I think illegal immigrants who commit violent crimes should be punished as severely as anyone else. Sure, deport, but if they keep coming back, lock them up. People who have come here and build a life over the years, never harming anyone? Leave them alone. Some of them even own businesses. Leave the Dreamers alone. They were brought here as children, had no choice in the matter, and are, for all practical purposes, American kids.
I don't have any problems with cracking down on employers. But I also want to see us end birthright citizenship. Nor do I think that somebody that broke our laws should move to the front of the line - that is not fair to those that follow our laws.
You could Google automation in America and find one article after another projecting one third of our workforce disappearing in the next decade. So why do we want even more competition? I know that many think government should simply pass out money so nobody has to work; but then our money will be worthless. That is not how the system works.
I am well aware that we are a nation of immigrants. But these are challenging times and, if there is not enough work for our citizens; should we not be very selective who we allow in? Of course some business will be hurt; but they might be the very businesses that your want us to collectively shut down or lock up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64
As far as the "Trump is bad" thing, well...getting back to the issues is supposed to be the main point of this thread, and I have tried to avoid talking about him unless it was absolutely necessary. I really don't want it to become a bash-fest, for anyone. Plenty of that already.
And this is where you have to start talking polices. Move away from the bashing and tell us what you will do to make our lives better!
Trump's campaign was based on pure populism, unlike any we have ever seen before in the USA. And America's electorate was ready to be manipulated by it; we've become a reality TV nation, transfixed by electronic diversions, self absorbed consumers that pay little or no attention to current events, much less having any knowledge of history. No critical thinking skills and no ability to understand the significance or hazard of electing an emotionally unstable charlatan like Donald Trump, the timing was perfect for him.
Point is that both Democrats and Republicans will struggle to gain any traction against a populist in this situation. Having an informed opinion and truly understanding the consequences of elections is hard work; and most Americans have no stomach for it. They would rather be spoon fed some feel-good populist crap.
^^^ This is the absolute truth. How many of my friends and co-workers even bothered to watch the debates? Or the speeches? Or look at the candidates platform?
Most people just decide who they like or don't like - pay ZERO attention to policy - and that's who they pull the lever for.
Therefore, we should run Brad Pitt.
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Originally Posted by LoveToRow
I figured out a lot earlier that Democrats hate white people. Welcome to that truth. It sucks, but it's reality.
I don't think you know the meaning of 'reality". For instance, I am white as are MANY Democrats so that's just dumb.
What the Democrats need to do is just LIE like Trump did. He didn't know jack squat about ANYTHING but he convinced the gullible that he could snap his fingers and make change.
That is perhaps the saddest reality............No one is "for" the blue collar worker...........
Agreed.
Dems need to realize that pandering to unions is not the same as being pro blue collar middle class.
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I really don't want it to become a bash-fest, for anyone. Plenty of that already.
