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Old 09-23-2017, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Twin Falls Idaho
4,996 posts, read 2,450,785 times
Reputation: 2540

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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Of course you are. Because it fits what you want to be the narrative. I, on the other hand, because I know more than the square root of **** about block grants, what they're used for, how they're given, what the qualifications are, etc., suspect the CBPP is using misleading figures and interpretations to push an agenda. You definitely are.

OK...I bow to your..undemonstrated, yet snarky referenced expertise.

I really have no narrative..except that this seems to be wrong...and you have offered no numbers, stats, or anything other than your word..to prove differently about the TANF grants in question.

In a phrase..prove that the chart I posted is wrong.
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Twin Falls Idaho
4,996 posts, read 2,450,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloforLife View Post
If Sam Brownback in Kansas gets his hands on that money, it will be used for anything but helping the poor.
Maybe he will use it for education! Just joking
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Arizona
6,137 posts, read 3,874,248 times
Reputation: 4900
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
GOP alternatives will.be sure to devastate the poor.
California Democrats do everything they can to devastate the poor.

There has never been a political organization in the history of America to devastate the poor more than the California Democratic party.

If Republicans devastate the poor, then why do so many working-class and middle-class vote Republican.

I worry that California Democrats will use the block grant for pensions or for union wage increases.

The thing about the block grant on a per-capita basis is that it rewards states with low health-care costs like Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa and South Dakota.

A day in the hospital costs over 3,300 dollars in California but 1,200 dollars in South Dakota.

South Dakota because it has very low health care costs because of reasonable wages for health care workers, lack of illegal immigration and they are more efficient will come out way ahead.

California with it's gold-plated compensation packages that are excessive, millions of illegal immigrants and poorly run hospitals will come out way behind.

Many Republican states will come way, way, way ahead under this proposal. Billions more dollars straight to the states to craft an excellent health care system.

States like New York and California will have massive cuts because they are inefficient, the unions dictate what goes on the hospitals and they have millions of illegals of which many in poor health overwhelmingly the system.
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:59 AM
 
2,212 posts, read 1,076,532 times
Reputation: 1381
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilEyeFleegle View Post
Odd..i found them to be quite to the point..with proofs attached.

We are talking about TANF here..not any of the other things you referenced--but as a cautionary note..other grants can be abused as well, but it seems...that TANF is ripe for the picking...as you can see by the charts..with 10 states using less than 10% of the monies for cash grants to the poor.

But that chart just reflects how much states used the block grants on "money assistance" and nothing else.

Personally I think that's a good idea not to just hand them cash and then hope they spend it wisely.
Better the money goes into programs to help them and their kids long term like Head Start, child care, refundable tax credits, etc.

The subsequent charts show the breakdown for the other various programs.

Illinois, for example, spends a lot more than others on child care for the poor so they can go to work.
Texas, for example, spends a lot of money on Head Start/pre-K and child welfare services.

You have to look at all the charts and not just one and determine that the state is not using the money for the poor.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:04 AM
 
1,156 posts, read 944,086 times
Reputation: 3599
So this is one analysis of reporting/financial data by one organization. The chart, of course, has a visceral impact, but only 4 states spend more than 50%...are all states stealing...just some more than others? Maybe. Maybe the spending is fine under the conditions presented by the Federal Government and just doesn't fit the definitions and narrative the authors of this study chose to use, it's hard to tell.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Twin Falls Idaho
4,996 posts, read 2,450,785 times
Reputation: 2540
Quote:
Originally Posted by skycaller23 View Post
But that chart just reflects how much states used the block grants on "money assistance" and nothing else.

Personally I think that's a good idea not to just hand them cash and then hope they spend it wisely.
Better the money goes into programs to help them and their kids long term like Head Start, child care, refundable tax credits, etc.

The subsequent charts show the breakdown for the other various programs.

Illinois, for example, spends a lot more than others on child care for the poor so they can go to work.
Texas, for example, spends a lot of money on Head Start/pre-K and child welfare services.

You have to look at all the charts and not just one and determine that the state is not using the money for the poor.
I agree...and I'm not against that at all...but you can also find many States that put significant portion of that money into their general funds...after that, there is little to no accountability.

My point is not that everyone abuses the block grants..my point is that the system is open to abuse, that some do abuse it..and that trusting the States..many of which have political axes to grind--is a bad idea.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:09 AM
 
2,212 posts, read 1,076,532 times
Reputation: 1381
Read the report before posting. OP posted one single chart showing how much "money assistance" states give out, not how much of the block grant goes towards the poor.

There are charts for every program funded by block grants. There are 9 areas the money can be used towards. OP posted one single area and decided that certains states were keeping the rest of the money.

Very misleading post.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Twin Falls Idaho
4,996 posts, read 2,450,785 times
Reputation: 2540
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal25 View Post
So this is one analysis of reporting/financial data by one organization. The chart, of course, has a visceral impact, but only 4 states spend more than 50%...are all states stealing...just some more than others? Maybe. Maybe the spending is fine under the conditions presented by the Federal Government and just doesn't fit the definitions and narrative the authors of this study chose to use, it's hard to tell.
I agree..more of a warning light, right?

Topical right now with the proposal that health care monies be disbursed in the block grant format.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:11 AM
 
2,212 posts, read 1,076,532 times
Reputation: 1381
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilEyeFleegle View Post
I agree...and I'm not against that at all...but you can also find many States that put significant portion of that money into their general funds...after that, there is little to no accountability.

My point is not that everyone abuses the block grants..my point is that the system is open to abuse, that some do abuse it..and that trusting the States..many of which have political axes to grind--is a bad idea.
Each state has to report to HHS quarterly how the money is being spent.
You consider that "little to no accountability" ?

That report says nothing about states' general funds so can you please provide sources for your statement that "many put significant portion into their general funds" ?
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Twin Falls Idaho
4,996 posts, read 2,450,785 times
Reputation: 2540
Quote:
Originally Posted by skycaller23 View Post
Read the report before posting. OP posted one single chart showing how much "money assistance" states give out, not how much of the block grant goes towards the poor.

There are charts for every program funded by block grants. There are 9 areas the money can be used towards. OP posted one single area and decided that certains states were keeping the rest of the money.

Very misleading post.
I posted the entire study..read it..and come to your own conclusions.

I should never have posted that chart..I see..since intellectually lazy people will just look at that..and go with it. My bad..and I apologize.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/family...nf-block-grant
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