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Buyer not seller. See that is the difference. Whole lot of people who cannot read a sentence without putting their own view on it.
And you ain't "got it". And likely you never will.
Oh but not you. There's a word for that: HYPOCRITE. You've "got it" in spades.
I get it alright, you're looking to buy the truth and not trying to sell it. You're not buying any of it because most of us in your mind are all liars. You'll only buy it when it supports your point of view. By implying that the truth is "rare here" tells me that you think you know what the truth already is. So why are you seeking it? If we're all a bunch of liars then why do you seek out the truth here? You are some piece of work. You make no sense at all.
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 10-11-2017 at 08:01 PM..
There is no "rub" it still means that. I am not sure what you are alluding to with "driving out goverment operatives". Perhaps you have a different perspective on what "preserving rights and liberties" means, than most?
The point I make is that of going with the founders. I see no reason to have a personal opinion on the item. In fact the founder view is hopeless today. But it is embedded in the Constitution. And that is the reason for the "Grand Conspiracy". No one today is actually willing to stand up and advocate what the Founding Fathers believed. The point is that if the citizens of Compton have lost faith in the government they activate their militia. Which is what the founding fathers intended. Now the founding fathers of course extended participation only to white property owners. But they did not put that into the Constitution
In fact the founder view is hopeless today. But it is embedded in the Constitution. And that is the reason for the "Grand Conspiracy". No one today is actually willing to stand up and advocate what the Founding Fathers believed.
A great many, today, disagree with you on those points. Your personal disbelief does not constitute fact.
What is the "grand conspiracy" you mention?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
The point is that if the citizens of Compton have lost faith in the government they activate their militia. Which is what the founding fathers intended. Now the founding fathers of course extended participation only to white property owners. But they did not put that into the Constitution
Negative. That is not "what the founding fathers intended." You are working from a flawed premise.
I will go ahead and take the L for this (take the L is sports terminology for "take a loss").
The majority of the murders(by raw numbers) in America, regardless of method used, involved one group. It is mainly Black people being killed by other Black people. Black men are the #1 murder victims in the USA. The circumstances of these murders, no gun laws could solve. As tragic as that mass shooting is, the most common murder that takes place in America is Black men murdering Black men. No gun laws can solve these issues.
1) Anger issues, and the inability to control that anger.
2) The mentality of "if you disrespect me you're a dead man".
3) Gangs and the proliferation of hard drugs such as cocaine, heroin, crack, meth, PCP.
4) Young boys growing up abused and taking that anger out on others.
Gun laws "might" stop the mass shooter. It won't stop the everyday murders in Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, in the inner cities of such places like St. Louis, Baltimore, Newark, Atlanta,etc. It goes on in Republican ran states. It goes on in Democratic ran states. There are bigger issues that guns won't solve, issues that have existed going back to the early 20th century and before.
I so agree with what you stated. Here in California we have strict gun laws but look what happened in San Bernardino. His buddy got the guns for him if I am not mistaken.
I feel terrible for what is happening in Chicago. Black young men - shooting Black young men. It's heartbreaking. I don't understand why Black leaders aren't going in there to stop the violence.
We have a lot of crime here in California and to be fair it's all ethnic groups creating it and yes that includes Non-Hispanic Whites. Non-Hispanic Whites seem to have a real problem with drugs and drugs lead to crime. It's a mixed bag.
A great many, today, disagree with you on those points. Your personal disbelief does not constitute fact.
What is the "grand conspiracy" you mention?
Negative. That is not "what the founding fathers intended." You are working from a flawed premise.
It is actually quite clear what the founding fathers intent was. They wrote it all down. Jefferson particularly. And it is not in any way surprising. They were revolutionaries who overthrew a lawful government.
The "grand conspiracy" is my opinion. It is a way to explain how diverse groups achieved agreement on what the second means...when it is obvious that was not true.
You actually believe that free black men not owning property were considered members of the "people" in 17XX?
It is actually quite clear what the founding fathers intent was. They wrote it all down. Jefferson particularly. And it is not in any way surprising. They were revolutionaries who overthrew a lawful government.
Agreed. My point was that your premise of "losing faith " in government was reason enough for an armed attack, is not a belief the founders held. The principle in question is most often stated as defense of liberty and rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
The "grand conspiracy" is my opinion. It is a way to explain how diverse groups achieved agreement on what the second means...when it is obvious that was not true.
I see. What is it that isn't true, exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
You actually believe that free black men not owning property were considered members of the "people" in 17XX?
I didn't comment on this, so I am unsure why you are assuming it.
Agreed. My point was that your premise of "losing faith " in government was reason enough for an armed attack, is not a belief the founders held. The principle in question is most often stated as defense of liberty and rights.
The criteria is an "oppressive" government. I know a number of people who would agree that either Trump or Obama qualify as oppressive.
Quote:
I see. What is it that isn't true, exactly?
The second was quite clearly designed so the citizenry could overthrow an "oppressive" government. I see no one actually pushing such a position...even though it was clearly the intent of the founders.
Quote:
I didn't comment on this, so I am unsure why you are assuming it.
The criteria is an "oppressive" government. I know a number of people who would agree that either Trump or Obama qualify as oppressive.
Oppressive, as in disallowing inalienable liberties and rights. Not a belief of such an occurrence, but a provable history of such. Even then, they did not espouse attacking based on a belief of such or even proof of. It was in defense of such force that they believed in. The declaration was clear regarding thier belief in the right to separate from a government that had become destructive regarding their belief natural law and inalienable rights. It was a statement if premise, not a military attack.
Aside from that, viewing a government official as oppressive is not the same as the entire government. The branches and especially the presidency are designed to be able to deal with exactly such an occurrence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
The second was quite clearly designed so the citizenry could overthrow an "oppressive" government. I see no one actually pushing such a position...even though it was clearly the intent of the founders.
This is a common argument in defense of the 2nd amendment.
This is a common argument in defense of the 2nd amendment.
That is incorrect.
Find me a court brief in any of the recent litigation that makes that argument. Particularly from a major player.
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