John Oliver Takes on Confederate Monuments

[desertdetroiter]

Originally Posted by 16 Acres

A little over an hour now and so far no responses to my two above replies.

What I am getting at is that about 95% of all the "whites" that I know in VA, NC and SC who were Born and Raised here and are of the Rural South, the Backbone of the Region, Farmers, Blue Collar, White Collar, Hard Working, Wholesome, Down to Earth people are in favor of keeping our history intact.

Heck, I never even hear any of my Black friends complain.

If you take a survey, you will find out that most that oppose are not even from the area and those that are here were not originally from here. You will also find that the worst areas are Liberal areas. Like Durham in the video posted in the link and Charlottesville for two examples.

By the way, those involved in the Durham case broke the law and were arrested.

You can keep your history. That’s got nothing to do with monuments put up in an effort to show just how displeased southerners were about Civil Rights.

Originally Posted by 16 Acres

I've been seeing the word "traitor" keep getting thrown around.

Let's hear your explanation of that.

Jeff Davis, General Lee, and the whole southern leadership we’re traitors, and should have been hanged as such when the war was over.

Originally Posted by 16 Acres

There is where you are wrong. The South did not declare war on the North. They just wanted the North out of their newly formed territory. At Fort Sumter, they politely asked them to leave and gave them plenty of time to boot. The North would not comply. The South had to finally fire to get their point across. And they accomplished it with no one killed by enemy fire.

It was the North that then invaded Virginia. Lincoln called for 75,000 troops. The South met them only to defend themselves. The North made it a war.

Sumpter was a federal fort. It wasn’t South Carolina’s to take.

But that’s fine...Sherman showed South Carolina what it’s really all about when he marched through there.

Originally Posted by 16 Acres

green_mariner,

I didn't get a chance to tell you the other day in the other thread, but I have some Blacks friends and they are all at peace with things, just like they were years ago. I have to say that a couple of them are my best friends. When we get together, everything is positive.

Yeah, you all have “black friends.”

Originally Posted by Joe90

Does the civil war really qualify as treason though? It seems to me that not wanting to be part of another country, is more like an act of independence.

Yeah, it qualifies as treason. Absolutely. Led by men who took an oath to the United States of America, and who tried to destroy the greatest government ever established on this earth.

Independence? From what?

Originally Posted by 16 Acres

Like I said, slavery was wrong.

But there are other ways to deal with it.

The North with the help of foreign nations should had squeezed out the South economically. Would it had worked? Hopefully. But no one even tried. And I'm speaking as a Southerner. They should have choked us economically.

Nahhh...there were no other ways to deal with it. Southerners were a hardheaded lot, and only by beating them down, destroying their territory, and taking their property by Force, could slavery have been ended. Southerners were simply too in love with the institution to have it any other way. Their ability under the law to rape, torture, beat, kill and subjugate others at will was too good for them to have just let it go. Slavery had made southerners pretty much the most depraved people in the Western World.

Originally Posted by MUTGR

Who is John Oliver? I've never heard of him.

Now you have.

Originally Posted by 16 Acres

Just caught your post before I was ready to shut down.

I don't know how many times I have to say it. The reason we fought is because we got Invaded. Sure, some wanted to keep slaves, but you are making it sound like "all" of us did. The stats I've seen out there say that slaves were owned by very low percentage of people. I have read some as low as 6%.

Think of it the opposite way, if you would like. If the North did not Invade us, then what ? How do you fight someone who is not there. The South had no reason to invade the North. They just wanted to be left alone.



There again, you are putting us all in the same pot. The Southern Government might have thought that way, but that didn't mean all of it's citizens did. I would say most were against it.

All southerners supported slavery whether they had slaves or not.

Why? Because slavery created a buffer that dirt poor whites could never fall below no matter what. And most white southerners were pretty bad off if they weren’t either in the planter class or the professional class.

Most white southerners were nothing more than dirt farmers or laborers. Yet they still ran off to fight for the planter class. Why? Because most aspired to become slave owners themselves.

Originally Posted by Prytania

Sorry our monuments should stay. Thankfully most of them will.

Stone Mountain is not going anywhere. The monument to my ancestor's unit in western NC is not going anywhere. I'd be all for putting up monuments to those who suffered under slavery, not to realise their full potential. I'd even donate to that cause.

But I'll never accept that monuments should be removed. And I'll never feel negative about my heritage (altough as a student of history, looking at the Civil War in understanding history is like opening a book and starting to read at chapter 11. A lot more came before that period of time. The American Revolution was won in the South. Southern culture is a mix of African, English and Scottish Covenanter Presbyterian primarily...I can even see the roots of the South when you look at the history of the Scottish Borders, the Plantation of Ulster, the Royalists in the English Civil War, etc).

I feel pretty good about being a Southerner and the history that is tied to.

Frankly, I don’t see what’s so special about “Southern Heritage,” whateve that means. It’s just another region of the country. There’s nothing about the region that makes it any different than anywhere else. Frankly, New England and the Desert Southwest are more distinctive. The only places in the South that I find to be distinct are Southern Louisiana and the Island cultures off of Georgia and South Carolina.

Rest of the South is pretty monochromatic, and that’s fairly high praise.

[Brave New World]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

Who is John Oliver? I've never heard of him.

He's a British Comedian, who lives in NYC.

Not sure about the comparison with Jimmy Savile, who was just a light entertainer (and a bad one at that) and didn't really have a lot of statues, other than a plaque in Scarborough, a rather bizzare statue at a Glasgow Childrens Swimming pool and his elaborate grave, there wasn't much to take down.

Also would you really compare a perverted light entertainer with those that often laid down their lives in a Civil War.

I am sure the South can debate and decide the issue themselves.

[Prytania]

Originally Posted by desertdetroiter

You can keep your history. That’s got nothing to do with monuments put up in an effort to show just how displeased southerners were about Civil Rights.

Jeff Davis, General Lee, and the whole southern leadership we’re traitors, and should have been hanged as such when the war was over.

Sumpter was a federal fort. It wasn’t South Carolina’s to take.

But that’s fine...Sherman showed South Carolina what it’s really all about when he marched through there.

Yeah, you all have “black friends.”

Yeah, it qualifies as treason. Absolutely. Led by men who took an oath to the United States of America, and who tried to destroy the greatest government ever established on this earth.

Independence? From what?

Nahhh...there were no other ways to deal with it. Southerners were a hardheaded lot, and only by beating them down, destroying their territory, and taking their property by Force, could slavery have been ended. Southerners were simply too in love with the institution to have it any other way. Their ability under the law to rape, torture, beat, kill and subjugate others at will was too good for them to have just let it go. Slavery had made southerners pretty much the most depraved people in the Western World.

Now you have.

All southerners supported slavery whether they had slaves or not.

Why? Because slavery created a buffer that dirt poor whites could never fall below no matter what. And most white southerners were pretty bad off if they weren’t either in the planter class or the professional class.

Most white southerners were nothing more than dirt farmers or laborers. Yet they still ran off to fight for the planter class. Why? Because most aspired to become slave owners themselves.


Frankly, I don’t see what’s so special about “Southern Heritage,” whateve that means. It’s just another region of the country. There’s nothing about the region that makes it any different than anywhere else. Frankly, New England and the Desert Southwest are more distinctive. The only places in the South that I find to be distinct are Southern Louisiana and the Island cultures off of Georgia and South Carolina.

Rest of the South is pretty monochromatic, and that’s fairly high praise.

Suit yourself. My family is from Appalachia and fought for the Confederacy. I should say they fought in Appalachian Highland regiments to defend their home region.

You don't sound like you like the south too much. That's fine with us, you can remain happy and stay away.


My travels up north and out west, and in Europe are close to making me a Southern Nationalist. Not White, Southern. We are distinctive as any demographic, political and cultural data/map will show you. Not advocating secession just recognition.

[Camaro5]

I can understand taking down Confederate statues, but it should stop there. Vandalizing (or removing) statues of Jefferson, Lincoln, and everybody else the left finds offensive is ridiculous. It's not up to the liberals to be judge and jury on what stays and what goes.

[BornintheSprings]

Originally Posted by Camaro5

I can understand taking down Confederate statues, but it should stop there. Vandalizing (or removing) statues of Jefferson, Lincoln, and everybody else the left finds offensive is ridiculous. It's not up to the liberals to be judge and jury on what stays and what goes.

I agree with you on this the confederate ones need to go statues of our founders should stay.

[Mr. Joshua]

Most of them should probably come down. They represent a failed rebellion and a war that was fought for the perpetuation of slavery.

The ones that I think could stay are the ones that honor the common soldier that adorn town squares all over the country. They are typically ones that were erected by the towns themselves in honor of the local boys who died.

[Prytania]

State or community law determine what stays or goes. Georgia, NC and AL have laws that monuments cannot be taken down. That's not for anyone else outside of the voters of the state/community and the state legislatures to decide.