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It would help if neither of the sexes were pigeon-holed. As I've already said, I was a Girl Scout (Junior) more than 40 years ago. All we did was home ec type things and arts and crafts. NOT for me. I quit and joined Camp Fire Girls, instead, and had a blast! And good thing, too, because the very first weekend getaway trip I went on with my husband of 33 years back when we were dating was a 3-day river canoeing trip over Memorial Day weekend with his friends and their dates. Yep... Canoeing, camping, setting up, packing up, and loading the canoe again after each overnight stop. Portage over unnavigable falls and rapids... the works. Had I stayed in GS, I would have been screwed. But since I had been a CFG, I LOVED every minute of it!
The boy scouts have always been about the boys. Sorry.
As for the girl scouts, why can't they include camping, etc..?
The boy scouts is a way for a boy to learn to be a MAN.
Sorry. One more thing going down the tubes in this country. Glad I don't have kids in this generation. They have no guidance at all because the grown ups have no clue.
The boy scouts have always been about the boys. Sorry.
As for the girl scouts, why can't they include camping, etc..?
Oh, I don't necessarily disagree. Just sharing my experience from over 40 years ago. Girl Scouts wouldn't change, so I did. Quit GS, and Joined Camp Fire Girls. GIRLS. I never insisted on joining a Boy Scout troop, nor would I.
You said: I think the scouts need to be co-ed if that is what the community wants.
Is what you really meant to say: I think the scouts need to be co-ed if that is what the girls want.
Just because the Girl Scouts aren't meeting the needs of the girls, the boys need to lose the Boy Scouts? A co-ed Scouts organization won't be the Boy Scouts. I doubt the boys were clammering for girls to be admitted.
This has nothing to do with whether or not the GSA is meeting the needs of their membership. GSA is not a factor in BSA's decision to let girls into the general youth program. It has to do with dwindling membership, which is causing councils to have to consolidate and camps having to be closed and sold off, all too often to developers. Thankfully my (former) home council's flagship camp has the town where it is located as the highest bidder, and they plan to keep it as undeveloped for outdoor recreational use.
The fact is that (and I can speak to this from growing up in a family with Boy Scouts, both youth and adults) girls will benefit from BSA's program, more so than the GSA's. I have detailed that fact at length throughout this thread. I have also seen a lot of BSA members, some of whom are adults who were members as youth Scouts, who are in favor of this change. My oldest brother is one of them, and he's been in since Cub Scouts back in the mid-1970's.
Seems to me the only opposition I've been seeing is GSA, and those people not familiar with either program. I grew up with two brothers and a father involved in BSA (2/3 are still active members), plus I was in GSA for 4 years, but bailed my first year in Cadettes because every meeting was a social gathering with no thought to earning badges, awards, and I doubt any of the girls had a clue about outdoor camping, Leave No Trace, or any of the things the Boy Scouts in my family were learning about.
I agree. I really don't see a point in this silly idea of girls joining the Boy Scouts or for the Boy Scouts caving to PC. Let the genders stay separate.
Read up on and compare the two programs. Read the (non)requirements for rank advancement for GSA vs. the stringent rank advancement requirements for BSA. Read the requirements for Gold Award for GSA vs. Eagle rank for BSA, and keep in mind that Eagle is worked towards the moment a boy joins at the Scout rank, whereas a girl can join as a 14 year old and still earn Gold Award because GSA ranks are not cumulative whereas BSA's are, and everyone in BSA starts at the same level regardless of age. GSA ranks are based on age/grade.
Also consider the fact that girls and women have been participated in BSA programs for 30-40 years. National Camp School trek leader course requires a 4-day wilderness trek and the training groups are often co-ed with men and women as young as 18.
Just responding to those who keep asking 'why not change girls scouts'? Parents have been asking the Girl Scouts for a more Boy Scout-like program for years, even decades, yet you have posters on here who seem to think that all you have to do is "get involved" and Girl Scout administration will miraculously realize that their organization leaves something to be desired.
I was extremely disappointed in my experience with GSA. I was a member of 3 troops (1 year Brownie, 3 years Junior, 3 weeks or so Cadette) and all three were more social gatherings than working on badges, awards, etc. Meanwhile I had two brothers in BSA earning ranks and badges hand over fist, with one making Eagle, the other Life (the rank before Eagle), and doing more Scout-related activities with their troop than my troops got into.
This has nothing to do with whether or not the GSA is meeting the needs of their membership. GSA is not a factor in BSA's decision to let girls into the general youth program. It has to do with dwindling membership, which is causing councils to have to consolidate and camps having to be closed and sold off, all too often to developers. Thankfully my (former) home council's flagship camp has the town where it is located as the highest bidder, and they plan to keep it as undeveloped for outdoor recreational use.
Our council was going to sell Sabattis, in Long Lake NY. We've managed to get them to put it off for two years, so now the push is on to get funding and make needed repairs. Despite being a woman, I've managed to build most of our house in PA, so I'll be up there with my tools at the end of the month. (Just have to get my replacement blade guard for my compound miter saw.)
I was extremely disappointed in my experience with GSA. I was a member of 3 troops (1 year Brownie, 3 years Junior, 3 weeks or so Cadette) and all three were more social gatherings than working on badges, awards, etc. Meanwhile I had two brothers in BSA earning ranks and badges hand over fist, with one making Eagle, the other Life (the rank before Eagle), and doing more Scout-related activities with their troop than my troops got into.
That mirrors my unsatisfactory experience with GSA, as well. I bailed. Camp Fire Girls was a MUCH better fit for me.
It's ALL about the $$$$$$$$. If you can't entice enough boys to get off their electronics once a week and a few weekends a year, and parents don't have the will or care enough to make their kids get up and do some outdoor activities then as an organization that needs new blood and new membership $$$$$$$ as well as popcorn sellers to survive said organization has to look at other ways to generate the $$$$$$$$ they need to keep paying their salaries and expenses.
Although I'm thrilled that girls can now be part of Boy Scouts, I actually favor separate groups as well.
The funny/ironic thing here is that it's the younger groups where I have less problem with a co-ed den, yet it's WAY easier to have separate groups at the Cub Scout level. I'm really hoping to keep Boy Scouts separated by gender, but that's much harder to do because of the way the program is set up.
At the Boy Scout level, the scouts learn from each other, and without a good number of kids, you don't have the same opportunities for teaching and leading. Without a fair number of girls in the program, at different ages and ranks, how do you fulfill requirements? It's going to be very, very tough to accomplish.
What's distressing to me is seeing how many scout leaders have said they're going to quit, how many have been downright nasty in their comments, and their general negativity (not all of them - thankfully). I get it that change is hard, but this makes me wonder if these leaders ever understood scouting to begin with. "A scout is... trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent." Haven't seen much of this the last week.
The scout law hasn't been relevant since the Trump rally that was his Jambo Speech IMHO.
That said and going back to the topic, I am not surprised in leaders complaining about it. There was one adult who even complained about active female adult leaders in Boy Scouts as far back as 2000. My mother had to deal with this several times.
It's ALL about the $$$$$$$$. If you can't entice enough boys to get off their electronics once a week and a few weekends a year, and parents don't have the will or care enough to make their kids get up and do some outdoor activities then as an organization that needs new blood and new membership $$$$$$$ as well as popcorn sellers to survive said organization has to look at other ways to generate the $$$$$$$$ they need to keep paying their salaries and expenses.
Viola! Let's admit girls...
I don't know how much the electronics are an issue for blocking would be scouts. I recognize technology had changed since I last camped in my uniform during 2005. However i don't know the current policies for tech on trips.
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