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View Poll Results: Are you happy your taxes are going up?
Yes 22 29.73%
No 52 70.27%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-04-2017, 04:35 PM
 
Location: ATX/Houston
1,850 posts, read 554,871 times
Reputation: 467

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"took us awhile to recover from the Great Recession,"

The great recession was back in the 30's. Is that what ypu are talking about?
That's the GREAT DEPRESSION from 1929

Quote:
"All opposite what Obama had to face"

The recession was officially OVER when Obama took office an HE claimed he could fix our situation in his 1st term and if did not he would NOT DESERVE a 2nd term.

He did NOT perform yet he ran again anyway.

"Yes, of course, the deficit was driven up as a result of trying to revive the economy after GW left America/Obama"
The recession being "officially over" has to do with GDP growth turning a corner, that doesn't mean there are plentiful jobs or the like.

Quote:
The economy was BOOMING AND the deficit was COMING DOWN under W. Bush until 2008 when the dem took back control of the Congress.
GWB cut taxes, greatly increased spending, and had the worst economic crisis occur under him. GWB's policies greatly increase the debt.

Quote:
W. TRIED to get the dems to address the housing banking issue and they said that there was NO problem, then the housing bubble burst.

Many experts say that Clinton started the problem.
Oh yea? That de-regulation worked well huh?

Quote:
At first W. was OK with it UNTIL he fond out the problem and tried to get congress to address it.

So, to put ALL the blame on W is disingenuous, to say the least.
All the blame is disingenuous but his policies led directly to a massive debt due to wars, massive entitlements, and cutting taxes.

Recessions are inevitable, which is why cutting taxes amidst the 2nd longest stock market run is stupid.

Quote:
" Publication: Business Wire
Date: Friday, January 4 2008

More Than 8.3 Million Jobs Created Since August 2003 In Longest Continuous Run Of Job Growth On Record

WASHINGTON -- Today, the Bureau of Labor Statistics released new jobs figures - 18,000 jobs created in December. Since August 2003, more than 8.3 million jobs have been created, with more than 1.3 million jobs created throughout 2007. Our economy has now added jobs for 52 straight months - the longest period of uninterrupted job growth on record. The unemployment rate remains low at 5 percent. The U.S. economy benefits from a solid foundation, but we cannot take economic growth for granted and economic indicators have become increasingly mixed. President Bush will continue working with Congress to address the challenges our economy faces and help facilitate long-term economic growth, job growth, and better standards of living for all Americans.


* Real GDP grew at a strong 4.9 percent annual rate in the third quarter of 2007. The economy has now experienced six years of uninterrupted growth, averaging 2.8 percent a year since 2001.

* Real after-tax per capita personal income has risen by 11.7 percent - an average of more than $3,550 per person - since President Bush took office.

* Over the course of this Administration, productivity growth has averaged 2.6 percent per year. This growth is well above average productivity growth in the 1990s, 1980s, and 1970s.


By 2003, Mr. Bush grasped this lesson. In that year, he cut the dividend and capital gains rates to 15 percent each, and the economy responded. In two years, stocks rose 20 percent. In three years, $15 trillion of new wealth was created. The U.S. economy added 8 million new jobs from mid-2003 to early 2007, and the median household increased its wealth by $20,000 in real terms.



But the real jolt for tax-cutting opponents was that the 03 Bush tax cuts also generated a massive increase in federal tax receipts. From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenues increased by $785 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. According to the Treasury Department, individual and corporate income tax receipts were up 40 percent in the three years following the Bush tax cuts. And (bonus) the rich paid an even higher percentage of the total tax burden than they had at any time in at least the previous 40 years. This was news to theNew York Times, whose astonished editorial board could only describe the gains as a “surprise windfall.”"


Bush's debt and deficits were fueled almost entirely from the wars, Katrina, and all of the other bad luck events that happened under his watch.

Unfortunately for Bush, his time in office never saw a break in terms of bad luck. Regardless of all this bad luck, he managed to control the 2001 recession and bring unemployment back down to healthy levels again (less than 5%). Bush managed to get the economy back on its feet, and given the fact that we were in two wars and had Katrina hit during 2005 (near the peak of the economy), I think he did a fantastic job managing everything.

In addition, he managed to steadily reduce our increase in public debt and our deficit near the end of his final term. It only started to rise again in 2008. If Bush had more time in office, I am very confident he could have gotten this economy stabilized and back on its feet again in much shorter time than Obama. Unemployment would not have gone higher than 9% I'm thinking either. In fact even during the 2001 recession, unemployment never got higher than 6.3%!"
OK? Meanwhile the worst economic crisis since the Great DEPRESSION pretty much wiped out all that growth.
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,893 posts, read 13,446,335 times
Reputation: 21997
This is interesting: The Senate GOP Accidentally Killed Some of Its Donors’ Favorite Tax Breaks

"The GOP had originally intended to abolish the AMT. But on Friday, with the clock running out — and money running short — Senate Republicans put the AMT back into their bill. Unfortunately for McConnell, they forgot to lower the AMT after doing so. This is a big problem. The Senate bill brings the normal corporate rate down to 20 percent — while leaving the alternative minimum rate at … 20 percent. The legislation would still allow corporations to claim a wide variety of tax credits and deductions — it just renders all them completely worthless. Companies can either take no deductions, and pay a 20 percent rate — or take lots of deductions … and pay a 20 percent rate.

With this blunder, Senate Republicans have achieved the unthinkable: They’ve written a giant corporate tax cut that many of their corporate donors do not like. As The Wall Street Journal reports:"
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:55 PM
 
Location: ATX/Houston
1,850 posts, read 554,871 times
Reputation: 467
These tax cuts will make the next inevitable recession much more painful than it would be otherwise. We have had good economic growth in most of the country for 3 years with the rest of the country finally feeling it along with the second longest stock run. The longest stock run ended with the Great Depression... fyi.... Aside from lowering the corporate tax rate, we should be lowering taxes.

We are also cutting taxes at a time when our population is aging and retiring, at least a very large demographic is. We are really screwing over the future of this country unless the past of this country takes serious entitlement cuts. SSN is stable, but Medicare is scary; 60% of the retiring demographic (~80 million) is obese. Healthcare costs will continue to spiral upwards since obese and old is expensive.

This tax cut plan, so far, will inevitably hurt this country when inevitably a recession happens. We have nearly full employment with our labor participation with most of the global growth happening outside of the US. This tax cut plan is very globalist as well, those with the capital to invest abroad will do very well.
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Old 12-04-2017, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
21,516 posts, read 43,813,892 times
Reputation: 15050
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
I and others have used the calculators based on the tax plans that are available online. We SAVE money.
Oh, please. At what cost? And, how much? Your "cuts" end in five years. We'll be in a recession by then and you may lose your job. This "juicing" of the economy with BORROWED MONEY is stupid. It isn't necessary. At all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by okcthunder1945 View Post
That's the GREAT DEPRESSION from 1929

The recession being "officially over" has to do with GDP growth turning a corner, that doesn't mean there are plentiful jobs or the like.

GWB cut taxes, greatly increased spending, and had the worst economic crisis occur under him. GWB's policies greatly increase the debt.

Oh yea? That de-regulation worked well huh?

All the blame is disingenuous but his policies led directly to a massive debt due to wars, massive entitlements, and cutting taxes.

Recessions are inevitable, which is why cutting taxes amidst the 2nd longest stock market run is stupid.

OK? Meanwhile the worst economic crisis since the Great DEPRESSION pretty much wiped out all that growth.
Oh, yeah. Having lived through the horror of 2008 when the market crashed (fortunately I got out early), I am still shell-shocked. Took me years to have the courage to get back in so I lost a lot of upside. Won't do that again, but at the same time I'm not waiting for the freefall, either - which will happen.

How can people forget 2008 and its aftermath and believe this tax giveaway with BORROWED MONEY is a good thing???

The debacle in unemployment, foreclosures, people being totally wiped out I'll never forget.

I am, right now, doing strategic planning for the next calamity - which, as night follows day, will occur with enactment of this THEFT from the Treasury. I don't need to learn the same lesson twice.

Interest rates will soar as will inflation. Jobs will be lost. It won't be pretty.

Buy, hey, you Trumpers - you got your $500 or $2,000 a year. Big friggen whoop. It's not worth the price you'll eventually pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by okcthunder1945 View Post
These tax cuts will make the next inevitable recession much more painful than it would be otherwise. We have had good economic growth in most of the country for 3 years with the rest of the country finally feeling it along with the second longest stock run. The longest stock run ended with the Great Depression... fyi.... Aside from lowering the corporate tax rate, we should be lowering taxes.

This tax cut plan, so far, will inevitably hurt this country when inevitably a recession happens. We have nearly full employment with our labor participation with most of the global growth happening outside of the US. This tax cut plan is very globalist as well, those with the capital to invest abroad will do very well.
Absolutely. Every word of this is true.
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:10 AM
 
Location: *
8,045 posts, read 2,389,941 times
Reputation: 2204
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
or at the very least triggered corporate tax cuts upon a certain event, like wage increases for their employees, or hiring a certain number of new full time employees, but oh no...we can't do something that would actually help the middle class and stimulate consumer spending.
Tying wage increases &/or new jobs created for American people to trigger corporate tax cuts was recommended as a more pragmatic solution to the problem. This idea was formulated into a practical plan for implementation however was, of course, dismissed.

In the present day, corporations & Wall Street regulate US government.
  • In 1952, individuals paid 42.2 percent, corporations paid 32.1 percent and social insurance & retirement paid 9.7 percent of U.S. taxes.
  • In 2015, individuals paid 46.5 percent, corporations paid 10.8 percent and social insurance & retirement paid 33.5 percent of U.S. taxes.
Quote:
...Corporations are paying a smaller share of federal tax revenue than they did in the 1950s, dropping from one-third then to only one-tenth of the total today. Yet, an army of lobbyists is pushing hard to convince Congress to cut the corporate income tax rate by nearly one-third — from the current 35% to 25%. This issue is at the epicenter of the coming battle over tax reform.
  • General Electric, Boeing, Priceline.com, Verizon and 22 other profitable Fortune 500 firms paid no federal income taxes from 2008 through 2012, according to Citizens for Tax Justice.
  • 111 profitable Fortune 500 firms paid zero federal taxes in at least one of those five years.
  • General Electric, one of the most notorious corporate tax dodgers, got $3.1 billion in refunds on $27.5 billion in profits from 2008 to 2012. The company paid less in federal income taxes in five years than a single American family pays in one year.
"There is no relationship between cutting corporate tax rates and job growth, according to a recent study by the Center for Effective Government. Twenty-two of the 30 profitable Fortune 500 companies that paid the highest tax rates (30% or more) from 2008 to 2010 created almost 200,000 jobs between 2008 and 2012. The 30 profitable corporations that paid little or no taxes over the three years collectively shed 51,289 jobs between 2008 and 2012."

Fact Sheet: Corporate Tax Rates

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/...ate-tax-rates/

While 99% of American people are still waiting for the 'trickle-down' to kick in ...

1% of American people are happily asserting, 'it's déjà voodoo all over again'. They're calling the shots now & have been doing so for 2 or 3 or 4 decades now. Apparently, buying the US government has its advantages.

It's not a bug in the system, it's a feature:

Quote:
The last time companies got a break on overseas profits, it didn't work out well
  • Congress in 2004 approved a repatriation tax holiday that brought back $312 billion in overseas profits.
  • Most of the money was used not for economic growth but to give cash back to shareholders.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/26/what...android-mobile
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:54 AM
Status: "Trump: Comrade!" (set 8 days ago)
 
10,480 posts, read 6,176,962 times
Reputation: 7221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
This is interesting: The Senate GOP Accidentally Killed Some of Its Donors’ Favorite Tax Breaks

"The GOP had originally intended to abolish the AMT. But on Friday, with the clock running out — and money running short — Senate Republicans put the AMT back into their bill. Unfortunately for McConnell, they forgot to lower the AMT after doing so. This is a big problem. The Senate bill brings the normal corporate rate down to 20 percent — while leaving the alternative minimum rate at … 20 percent. The legislation would still allow corporations to claim a wide variety of tax credits and deductions — it just renders all them completely worthless. Companies can either take no deductions, and pay a 20 percent rate — or take lots of deductions … and pay a 20 percent rate.

With this blunder, Senate Republicans have achieved the unthinkable: They’ve written a giant corporate tax cut that many of their corporate donors do not like. As The Wall Street Journal reports:"
That was an interesting article. I guess that it was a case that the had to pass the bill to see what was in it (literally), and were surprised at some of the results.
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,148 posts, read 15,686,639 times
Reputation: 9820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
I shouldn't have to subsidize your state's taxes so yes I'm happy about that. I paid $89K in FIT last year and I'll pay much less next year while you'll pay more which I have no problem with, you need to contribute more.
You do realize that is how society works right? You subsidize someone's Medicare, most workers subsidize Medicaide and Social Security, I subsidize SALT and someone who gets SALT may pay my refund due to deductions, credits and money from each check going towards taxes.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:44 AM
 
Location: NYC
1,815 posts, read 1,695,506 times
Reputation: 1253
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
I've had the same insurance, a very good insurance, a policy that fit our needs, for over 20 years, yes premiums increased but by VERY small increments. After Obamacare premiums exploded. Before Obamacare, my premiums was $450 a month, after Obamacare, my premiums this year, 2017 was $920 a month with notice that in 2018 my premium would be $1,528 a month. Needless to say, I tried to hang on but can't any longer. We canceled and won't have HC insurance.

The lefts absolute refusal to see and admit that the legislation is very bad is one of the reasons you lost over 1000 legislative seats throughout the country and a republican president. It might still stand but at least they know it's a big problem. When they hear us, know it a big problem. Because Democrats still won't admit it's not working and won't vote for anything to try to fix it, and some republicans too, It most likely will collapse on it's own though.
that's why we need actual progressive democrats instead of corporate ones.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:52 AM
 
12,290 posts, read 3,156,118 times
Reputation: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by okcthunder1945 View Post
That's the GREAT DEPRESSION from 1929

The recession being "officially over" has to do with GDP growth turning a corner, that doesn't mean there are plentiful jobs or the like.

GWB cut taxes, greatly increased spending, and had the worst economic crisis occur under him. GWB's policies greatly increase the debt.

Oh yea? That de-regulation worked well huh?

All the blame is disingenuous but his policies led directly to a massive debt due to wars, massive entitlements, and cutting taxes.

Recessions are inevitable, which is why cutting taxes amidst the 2nd longest stock market run is stupid.

OK? Meanwhile the worst economic crisis since the Great DEPRESSION pretty much wiped out all that growth.
Thank you. Hard to believe the difference between the Great Recession and the Great Depression and/or what caused them needs to be explained, but when people are solely focused on how to tell a story according to their biased agenda, we end up with alternative facts that are considered as good as any. Wrong. Nice to know there are those a bit better balanced, reasoned and informed however. Thanks again...
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
14,089 posts, read 8,990,310 times
Reputation: 9546
Default The GOP Gives America's Neediest Millionaires a Tax Break.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv8yh7kJt1E




While this is funny and true I'm upset that this bill passed when they were given two hours to read such a massive tax bill. Like with the ACA they passed it anyways showing that the conservatives and the liberals are on the same side. I am happy that the mandate for the ACA is gone that was just about stupid forcing people to pay a penalty for not being able to afford/want healthcare.


In typical fashion the rich are getting richer of course which we all knew that would happen. I find it interesting that if your child goes to a private school your get a tax break, along with tax free college tuition. Because in the end they rich kids deserve better then working class.


And of COURSE those people who own golf courses get taxes breaks! What president currently in office owns a golf course or has a private jet? If ANYONE has ANY doubt that this bill ISN"T for the rich then I hope you some how lose your right to vote in the next election.
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