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Of course Trump was going to do this, the nut job christian fundamentalists that exist in the republican party and in America itself have been aiding Israel since the state was formally established and even prior to that. They've been waiting until the political climate had changed enough to make these changes without pissing off most of the world, unfortunately Trump is stupid enough to do this without fear of the repercussions. Remember the Christians believe once the Jews return to the holy land that the second coming of Christ will soon follow, that's why thousands of Americans travel there every year to help build and work the lands in Israel. It's ****ing crazy.
Perhaps you should reserve your judgment and think about this for once. Shabazz is right.
The USA has been trying to broker a peace in the middle east for decades now, in part because it is just the right thing to do, if we can. In part because it is in the long term better for Israel, which we have tried to protect.
The two parties to this conflict would like to see their opposite number simply disappear, nothing could make them more pleased.
Just getting both parties to agree to a two state solution is a massive compromise for both of them. Not being what either party had at first wanted, it is recognized as the only way forward. What needs working out is the details, and this has been a painfully difficult process, both parties have grievances and there is an atmosphere of distrust.
In order to facilitate negotiations, the thorniest of these details were to be left for a genuine mutually agreed settlement between the two parties. The international community can not be seen to impose a decision upon them, and the USA, as mediator, can not be seen to be partial.
Now we have thrown that away. We are no longer seen as sincerely impartial, our previous actions appear to have been a charade, our role in the peace process is over.
So you're thinking that before Trump, everyone thought we were impartial? What with all the intelligence and military technology sharing between Israel and the US, not to mention billions in military aid funds, that we were unbiased? That's cute. At least we're not being hypocrites any more. Maybe that will give us more credibility.
Honestly, I don't know what to think about Trump's announcement. I've yet to see anyone come up with a single legitimate reason how it will lead to peace. Other the other hand, there has been no peace there ever anyway. So there's no valid reason to keep doing what we're doing and expecting different results. Ain't gonna happen.
Palestinians are victims of their own leaders who will not let them live under peace until Israel is wiped off the face of the earth. That's the issue here. So maybe it is time to try something new.
The reason I called a previous poster's post hypocritical is because he calls himself a "student of history", who says anyone who thinks the US should help Israel an Israel-Firster. Says Washington is full of Israel-firsters and "that's a fact". If you argue with him, well, see for yourself.
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Originally Posted by SHABAZZ310
Nope, I don't waste my breath on neocons stuck in their ways.. I typed what I had to say. I'll let the readers form their own opinions. I'm not going back centuries because I don't care who was there before the US was a country.. You sound like an Israeli firster...
If Mr. Trump had done the same, perhaps the 'days of rage' would only be two days, not three.
Anyone who follows the Palestinians is aware that "days of rage" happen almost weekly. These particular "days of rage" involve marches/protests & burning tires in their own neighborhoods (sounds familiar doesn't it) and throwing rocks at Israelis.
As for the Russia statement, which was pretty much ignored by the world - no "days of rage", no UN Security Council meeting, no Emergency Arab League Meeting (the 4th "emergency meeting in less than 30 days), no Outraged Statements by France, UK, Germany, EU, Greece, Italy ...... the list goes on. It got a "yawn".
Putin failed to Identify the "west' Jerusalem he was referring to - it's definition has never been agreed to.
Did the Russian Federation mean the 2.5 square miles of W. Jerusalem?
Or the 27 square miles of W. Jerusalem?
As for President Trump's statement - Chuck Schumer recently spoke about Jerusalem & President Trump.
*"This year is the fiftieth anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem, yet with 2018 fast approaching, the U.S. still hasn't moved the embassy or made clear its commitment to Israel's capital," the New York Democrat said in a statement.
He added: "President Trump's recent comments suggest his indecisiveness on the embassy's relocation. As someone who strongly believes that Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel, I am calling for the U.S. Embassy in Israel to be relocated to Jerusalem. Moving the embassy as soon as possible would appropriately commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of Jerusalem's reunification and show the world that the U.S. definitively acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel's capital."
Those are strong words, and far more inherently controversial than Trump’s. Schumer used the word “undivided” and “Jerusalem” in the same sentence while Trump went out of his way to say instead that “We are not taking a position of any final status issues including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem or the resolution of contested borders. Those questions are up to the parties involved.”
What differentiates the president from the Democratic minority leader is that Trump—correctly, and crucially —says the final borders in and around Jerusalem need to be negotiated between the Israelis and Palestinians.
It's being built on land to the west of the Old City of Jerusalem and not inside of it. This land has been in the hands of Israel since the UN partition in 1948. Israel calls the county of Jerusalem it's capital. It's choice as this part was never in Jordan's hands after the Armistice of 1949. The issue is symbolic. The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 has been enacted and no further POTUS can waive it and thus no future POTUS has to deal with it. Knowing the way gov't contracts work and actual work getting started the US will have another POTUS in place by then. Keep in mind that it's not even funded yet. So all it is right now is a symbolic gesture.
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Originally Posted by Pruzhany
As to negotiations. Everything has been tried over the last 50 years and nothing has been acceptable to Palestinian leaders. The Israeli government has said enough is enough and it's going to move forward until the Palestinian leaders decide to finally sit down and negotiate. Palestinian leaders want to demand pre-conditions and Israel has already learned that does more harm than good. Palestinian leaders have chosen to play their games internationally which does nothing to bring negotiations any closer. It makes them move farther apart.
As to the ME being in war, it's always been at some type of war before the UN partition of 1948. The only thing that changed after WW1 was that tribes became countries and the European colonials left. The Arabs are still fighting and killing each other. SSDD.
The Arabs are still mostly a Tribal Society - that's just a fact. A major problem with the USA & European involvement in the Mid-East & Africa has been that they insist on attempts to broker with Societies that are like European & US Societies.
As for the (totally misnamed) Israeli/Palestinian "Peace Process" -- like it or not, Mr Trump has taken the correct viewpoint, over 50 years of failed attempts with no progress except some Containment have failed.
I think he has also reviewed the tremendous amounts of MONEY we send to the Palestinians and the amount the USA sends pales to the amount the Saudis send. This is important - the Palestinians are totally dependent on the MONEY they get from "aid" - Trump has figured out how to leverage them.. The Oil Nations are struggling with Money and a youth population that is both huge and stagnant. Corruption is rampant in all their Societies and the days are fast approaching when "blame the Jews" is not going to keep the populace satisfied. They must change and they know it. Arafat died a Billionaire, Abbas in in his 80's and possibly a Billionaire, but certainly a Millionaire - meanwhile the Palestinian people have nothing. Even Hamas Leadership lives Fat & Happy - first kicked out of Lebanon (that was actually the PLO), then kicked out of Jordan, Kicked out of Syria, Kicked out of Egypt, Kicked out of Qatar and now settled in Turkey. There is a real pattern here.
I believe President Trump does have a "plan" and while he says it will be revealed in 2018 -- I think he is about at step 5-6 of Implementation of that plan.
IF we had a working Press in the USA, they would have been paying attention to what the Mid-East press has been yattering about for months. President Trump's plan involves removing the USA from the "broker" position and to put the correct "brokers" in place ...... Mid East Arab Leadership. Egypt & Saudi Arabia will lead the efforts and has already begun to do so. I heard Dennis Ross (former US Negotiator under several Presidents) say today that Mr Trump "should have given the Arab Leaders a Head's Up about what he was about to do -- I believe he did exactly that and sent Jared Kichner to deliver the 'Heads Up" last month or his 'secret' (according to Politico) trip to the Mid East - he went to Israel (where he also met with Abbas of the PA), Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia with a short stop in the UAE & Qatar. I doubt he informed Qatar, which has become an Iranian ally.
This weeks announcement kicked off the next stage. He stated publicly what everyone around the World knew to be the Reality. The Israelis have every Government Office in Jerusalem with the exception of the Defense Ministry ...... and they have had their Government offices in Jerusalem for decades. It is the Capitol of Israel is actuality, everyone is aware of that.
The moron in charge has just made the US the official bully of the world. How many will die because of a demented narcissist's twisted mind? Remember, Trump's the one with the nuclear button.
It's as though t-Rump WANTS war to occur, anywhere in the world, it doesn't matter to him - he just wants death and destruction. And he'll bring it on home to American soil if he can. He's worse than a fool - he is truly and completely evil.
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Originally Posted by Hesychios
It is time to wag the dog.
I was waiting for the TDS inspired comments to show up and viola! Never disappointed on here...
Nope, I don't waste my breath on neocons stuck in their ways.. I typed what I had to say. I'll let the readers form their own opinions. I'm not going back centuries because I don't care who was there before the US was a country.. You sound like an Israeli firster...
Of COURSE you're not going back because it doesn't lend any credence to your narrative. Sad, just sad...
Israel could have never become what it became without the United States, and Israel would not exist today if it were not for the United States, and AIPAC. As long as both exist, Israel will continue to exist, but not in peace, not for as long as any of us are alive anyway. Too bad for all concerned and the children too.
Too bad and too sad...
I'd agree with most of what you say with a few exceptions, one being nobody can predict what would or wouldn't happen in different scenarios. Something could have occurred that allowed Israel to become what it is U.S. or not.
As for surviving now? I wouldn't make a bet that they'd cease to exist today if it weren't for the U.S.. There'd be a whole lot more dead people if it wasn't for the U.S. that's for certain but given the weapons Israel now has and has had for many years?
Indians were considered "savages" when we the United States decided to take what was there's. Like who has the power and might over another, what has that got to do with the right or wrong of these actions by either party?
If you're equating what the Palestinian position is to what the Indians position was I'd love to see you rationalize and prove up that argument.
Needless to say, there is a great deal written about who has been in that part of the world going back many centuries, when the first use of the term "Palestinian" was used and why, along with all the rest, and all I can suggest to you is that you broaden your reading, because your one site hardly scratches the surface.
Me thinks you're the one with some history lessons still in need of learning...
PS: Not all revolves around who are "Palestinians" or why, or whether you think they exist or not. Just ask the people protesting over there what REALLY matters to them (for many decades now), and you might begin to get a better clue about much of this...
So I guess I can get a group of people to go protest in some country and demand things and they should just roll over because people like you say it'd be easier and lead to peace?
Breaking it down to basics, Palestinians didn't exist on that land prior to the Jews.
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At least we're not being hypocrites any more. Maybe that will give us more credibility. 
