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If I'm ever in Daniel Shaver's position, I'm just freezing and lying still there. I'm not playing simon says with your steroided out self, just so you can shoot me anyways for making a mistake while I'm trying to crawl around for you. Shoot me lying still or come up and arrest me like a man.
One has to remember, he was drunk. Nothing illegal in that. There was nothing illegal in anything he did. He tried his best to do as he was instructed.
The policemen told him to crawl forwards away from the hotel door, just before they shot him.
Exactly. LEO isn't going to put themselves in the line of fire to cuff/search a suspect if there were the possibility of armed persons in the hotel room. Standard safety protocol.
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Shame he made the wrong move while doing so, and ended up dead. As you say, all his own fault in your opinion.
Anyone with half a brain doesn't agree with you. I would like to see how you would have obeyed the screamed commands, if you had been in this poor young man's position.
I sure as hell know better than to make a movement consistent with reaching for a weapon, and everyone else should know better, too. The by the book response to any type of a reaching for a weapon movement made by a suspect is for the LEO to fire in self-defense. Upheld in every jurisdiction. I posted the example of the female LEO acquitted for exactly the same reason.
Well then it would make sense if the orders were : crawl towards me until I say stop.
Not: cross your legs, face down, arms out, now crawl towards us. Wait, I can't crawl with my arms out, I just moved them...that's consistent with reaching for a weapon too
No, it isn't. The suspect reached for his waist area. Not necessary for crawling, and exactly where many concealed weapons are.
Did you not watch the video? The moron can't even figure out how the card works. They stand there trying it over and over, he drops it, bends over to pick it up. Someone inside would have had time to get off 20 shots.
That was AFTER the original suspect had been removed as a threat. No valid reason for LEOs to face multiple threats, one from the suspect, and the other from armed persons in the room.
And if the cop was worried about someone else in the room he wouldn't have wasted valuable time playing a ridiculous game of simon sez with the kid.
What makes you think only one LEO responded? This was a tactical team response. One LEO doesn't respond by themselves to a call reporting someone pointing a scoped firearm out a hotel window.
What makes you think only one LEO responded? This was a tactical team response. One LEO doesn't respond by themselves to a call reporting someone pointing a scoped firearm out a hotel window.
A decently trained tactical team would quickly understand that never happened upon arrival.
Exactly. LEO isn't going to put themselves in the line of fire to cuff/search a suspect if there were the possibility of armed persons in the hotel room. Standard safety protocol.
I sure as hell know better than to make a movement consistent with reaching for a weapon, and everyone else should know better, too. The by the book response to any type of a reaching for a weapon movement made by a suspect is for the LEO to fire in self-defense. Upheld in every jurisdiction. I posted the example of the female LEO acquitted for exactly the same reason.
He was terrified, and you are trying to defend the indefensible. He was leaving the room with the young woman. If he was hiding a weapon, he would have dressed differently.
He obeyed the orders given as best he could, while clearly very frightened. The policeman with the rifle constantly told him he could be shot at any moment. he was given shouted instructions that were impossible to carry out as ordered, yet still he tried to obey.
While begging for his life, he was slaughtered like a mad dog in that hotel corridor. You have no shame defending this killer. Go ahead and repeat your mantra, it impresses nobody.
Last edited by English Dave; 12-12-2017 at 12:33 PM..
I'm an IDF combat officer. Sgan Aluf (Lieutenant colonel). I was leading highly trained teams in arrests of extremely dangerous terrorists during the second intifada.
What happened here is absolutely unacceptable, even in a combat zone.
And here we are having a drunk civilian with non known records of violent behavior.
Usually I always for the cops, but in this case it's a plain murder.
InformedConsent is about to explain exactly how InformedConsent would have handled that situation if InformedConsent were to have been in place of that killing cop guy.
I'm cooking popcorn right now.
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