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Old 01-03-2018, 10:11 AM
 
2,274 posts, read 1,339,310 times
Reputation: 3985

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
We don't. We have a civil service and they do their jobs. Our civil service was hired under all administrations (both parties) and political affiliation is not considered in the process.

All this 'deep state' nonsense is just an excuse to end civil service and bring back political hack hiring. Big mistake.
I think the deep state silliness goes much farther than that. This is one of the first steps that any dictator or authoritarian regime makes, forcing people to support you and your party in order to have a job, not be arrested, etc.

Shutting down any form of dissent is the main goal here. I think that is why Trump gets so angry about Kim and North Korea. Kim is the kind of leader that Trump wishes he could be, Kim does not have to worry about bad news coverage, approval ratings in the 30% range or millions of his own citizens making critical comments about him. Trump is America's version of Idi Amin.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:21 AM
 
8,275 posts, read 7,949,093 times
Reputation: 12122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
We don't. We have a civil service and they do their jobs. Our civil service was hired under all administrations (both parties) and political affiliation is not considered in the process.

All this 'deep state' nonsense is just an excuse to end civil service and bring back political hack hiring. Big mistake.
The job of the civil service is to execute lawful directives from the elected officials. Period. If they do not agree with the lawful directives, they can resign. What they cannot do is wage a resistance movement from the inside of whatever agency they work for.

Democratic governance doesn't work if the policies of elected officials are not followed. In the event the civil service does not follow the lawful directives of elected officials, we have nothing more than kangaroo elections to paper over a system that is undemocratic. I'm quite certain if Hillary had won, you all would have no tolerance for rogue bureaucrats resisting the implementation of her policies.

Trump's most serious failure, and it may prove to be fatal to his presidency, is that he left too many hostile bureaucrats in place.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,771 posts, read 22,673,762 times
Reputation: 24920
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
The job of the civil service is to execute lawful directives from the elected officials. Period. If they do not agree with the lawful directives, they can resign. What they cannot do is wage a resistance movement from the inside of whatever agency they work for.

Democratic governance doesn't work if the policies of elected officials are not followed. In the event the civil service does not follow the lawful directives of elected officials, we have nothing more than kangaroo elections to paper over a system that is undemocratic. I'm quite certain if Hillary had won, you all would have no tolerance for rogue bureaucrats resisting the implementation of her policies.

Trump's most serious failure, and it may prove to be fatal to his presidency, is that he left too many hostile bureaucrats in place.
It's the job of Civil servants to adhere to the Federal Code of Regulations, and carry out their duties consistent with the oath they are required to follow. A Civil Servants personal political beliefs or opinions of anyone are NOT part of those requirements.

Period.

Not seeing any evidence of this 'Deep State' boogeyman that proves any one, or any block of persons within the Civil Service have violated those tenets.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:34 AM
 
8,275 posts, read 7,949,093 times
Reputation: 12122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
It's the job of Civil servants to adhere to the Federal Code of Regulations, and carry out their duties consistent with the oath they are required to follow. A Civil Servants personal political beliefs or opinions of anyone are NOT part of those requirements.

Period.

Not seeing any evidence of this 'Deep State' boogeyman that proves any one, or any block of persons within the Civil Service have violated those tenets.
They can have whatever political beliefs or personal opinions they want so long as it doesn't affect their ability to implement the lawful policies of elected officials. They can't resist implementing the policies of elected officials because they disagree with those policies.

Or do you disagree with that? Are you suggesting that the civil service has a mission that is independent of elections?
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:36 AM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,638,052 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
So how did Russia help Trump win?


It is apparent that leaders in the FBI have been playing with justice's blindfold. the poster boy is doj head holder who falsified a warrant to spy on journalists. Went down hill from there as lynch picked up holder's corrupt legacy.




"The phrase,meant to suggest there is an architecture of government that operates outside the democratic system, ...."


From weaponized federal agencies used by Obama to suppress the conservative vote to comey's actions, lynch's behavior, Hillary not being prosecuted and apparently under the protection of the FBI leadership suggests an architecture of government and endorsed by Obama. the lack of cooperation to get information on issues like Fast and Furious, Clinton's emails, etc. when can someone under investigation destroy emails after a restraining order and not be prosecuted. When can a person claim she doesn't remember, what 50 xtimes? and the media yawns.


After the election it was the sentiment to let Hillary lies go unpunished. Then the all out war on Trump began. As a result of that vengeful destructive effort by government entities and collusion with the media, sentiment demands Hillary et al be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Something the FBI was reluctant to do as they validated the existence of a politically elite class that lives above the law.


DEEP state is a dramatic term for a corrupt FBI leadership. A legacy from JE hoover.

What is clear is that you just type fever dreams and provide zero proof of anything at all. You call the FBI and it's head corrupt yet never has a single one of you provided the slightest proof of corruption, and worse you KNOW IT! , you know you can't support a word of your post but you do it anyway just to spread FUD.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,771 posts, read 22,673,762 times
Reputation: 24920
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
They can have whatever political beliefs or personal opinions they want so long as it doesn't affect their ability to implement the lawful policies of elected officials. They can't resist implementing the policies of elected officials because they disagree with those policies.

Or do you disagree with that? Are you suggesting that the civil service has a mission that is independent of elections?
I'm sorry- what specific policy was violated? And remember- a policy is not the FCR.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:40 AM
 
8,275 posts, read 7,949,093 times
Reputation: 12122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
I'm sorry- what specific policy was violated? And remember- a policy is not the FCR.
Why do we bother with elections then? We have a Code of Federal Regulations. The civil service's sole job is to follow that. Seems elections are redundant and irrelevant if that document is what truly matters.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:42 AM
 
28,671 posts, read 18,795,274 times
Reputation: 30979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
There were many Obama appointed holdovers in the Trump admin. and I do believe that some of them were acting in a "deep state" way to make the transition of power difficult for Trump. Do you remember all the leaks of sensitive information that seemed to be coming out on a almost daily basis this time last year. It was ridiculous. The leaks have seemed to have stopped now or we are simply not being made aware of them but it was a real problem for the Trump team and America.

Imagine a new CEO taking over a company and people that should be grateful that they still have a job are actually trying to undermine the new owners and trying to bring down the company.. only it was the country they were hurting.
The permanent Executive bureaucracy are people who are working careers that they intend to last longer than any of the short-time residents of the White House. They have no problem flipping from Clinton to Bush to Obama...they're not going to sacrifice themselves for any particular White House short-timer.

But they are sensitive to the quality of leadership from the White House. Given a good leader, whether Regan or Clinton, they respond enthusiastically. Given a poor leader, whether Carter or Trump, they respond poorly.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:43 AM
 
20,462 posts, read 12,384,859 times
Reputation: 10259
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
So the Donald is once again at war with this Country's institutions. The Russian's chose well when they opted for Trump.


Never have we had a President that seems to despise what this country stands for as Trump. The constitution, rule of law, integrity, all under siege by this nut.

We have a conspiracy theorist in the Oval Office who believes what he reads on trash websites like the Daily Caller...and they call him Commander in Chief.







www.cnn.com/2018/01/02/politics/president-donald-trump-deep-state/index.htm
Never have we had a president assume the office with such vile hate filled monsters in control of the levers of power who were so committed to Progressive politics and the personal destruction of the new President. THAT is what we have never seen before.


Trump LOVES what this country stands for. Freedom and Equal Justice for ALL... That is decidedly NOT what the deep state believes in.


Further, Donald Trump is not talking about rank and file members of justice. He is talking about the political appointees that have the real power, that were put in place by progressives and are working destroy our system.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:44 AM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,459,324 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
Trump LOVES what this country stands for.
How can you be so sure?
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