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Old 01-31-2018, 10:08 PM
 
Location: The 719
18,029 posts, read 27,479,203 times
Reputation: 17356

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
"Beautiful coal" is an oxymoron like "healthy plutonium".
Coal is like plutonium.

If you could convince Hillary Rodham Clinton that sand is like Plutonium, the Mojave Desert would disappear and somehow wind up in Russia.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:10 PM
 
32,079 posts, read 15,081,434 times
Reputation: 13699
Coal is dead like it should be. We don't need anyone dying in collapsed mines and dying from black lung disease. Renewable energy is the future.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:18 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,080,948 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
The history of the coal market is one of boom and bust, going back decades.
The history of coal prices going back at least half century are quite stable especially compared to the natural gas market. It's not even comparable.
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Old 02-01-2018, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,122 posts, read 5,598,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcorub16 View Post
Can someone explain what this statement from President's Trump's speech means?

In a previous thread conservatives made it very clear to me that they were not against what is known as renewable energies but more so the government subsidies they receive. I'd like to hear more on what peoples thoughts are on the "beautiful, clean coal" remark.

It was a bone that Trump threw to all the unemployed coal miners, to keep them thinking that he's going to do something to benefit them.
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
3,211 posts, read 2,245,546 times
Reputation: 2607
Quote:
Originally Posted by malcorub16 View Post
Can someone explain what this statement from President's Trump's speech means?

In a previous thread conservatives made it very clear to me that they were not against what is known as renewable energies but more so the government subsidies they receive. I'd like to hear more on what peoples thoughts are on the "beautiful, clean coal" remark.
It means we are going to become energy independent.
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Old 02-01-2018, 08:41 AM
 
12,003 posts, read 11,907,446 times
Reputation: 22689
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
The history of coal prices going back at least half century are quite stable especially compared to the natural gas market. It's not even comparable.
If you average it out, I suppose you could have an argument. But if you look at employment patterns in the coal industry, there is undeniably a long history of boom and bust.

I can take you to abandoned coal company towns in eastern Kentucky where trees are growing up through the floors of the identical wooden houses, standing in long ghostly gray rows. During the good times, the boom periods such as World War II, several thousand people lived here. Once the market dwindled, the mines closed and the mine workers and their families were thrown out. In a few coal camps, out of work miners were allowed to purchase their homes when the mines closed and company moved out. Few could afford to do.

I could also write about scrip, the fake money usable only in the company-owned general stores which could be found in every coal camp. Prices were jacked up - and town was miles away, sometimes only accessible by rail, Passenger train travel to the nearest town with privately owned stores cost additional money and was inconvenient. So the scrip, which miners received in lieu of cash, was paid out to the company store, where customers were encouraged to run up accounts. Nice way to ensure a steady labor force - but woe betide any miner who got sick or became injured to the point of being unable to work. Out they'd go: no house, no money, no resources.

The typical coal camp schools only went through eighth grade, and were also company owned or heavily influenced, though technically part of the public school systems. High school education required travel and often the schools were almost inaccessible from the coal camps. So most kids either couldn't afford a daily train ticket, or the trains weren't even available to get them to school, school buses were not around, and no one carpooled as the mountain roads were often the creekbeds and almost no one had cars or available drivers anyway.

A few boarding settlement schools - Red Bird, Hindman, Pine Mountain and others - provided excellent education for those kids whose parents were determined to educate them regardless of the difficulties, but most boys joined their fathers in the mines as soon as they legally could. Fourteen, in many cases.

Conditions such as these led to the formation of the United Mine Workers of America, the UMWA, which fought for health care and better living conditions and pay. But those boom and bust cycles continued, with the resulting weakening of the union and great outmigration to the industrial cities of the northern Midwest, Detroit in particular but also Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Chicago.

New, greatly destructive methods of mining became common: both strip mining and mountaintop removal require far fewer workers than does deep mining. Lax state and federal regulations allowed tremendous destruction of the land in order to get at the coal, with resulting degradation of water, forests, wildlife, and the land itself.

So while you may be technically correct regarding the market cost of coal over the years, it doesn't appear that you are factoring in the true costs, the social and environmental costs of its production.
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Old 02-01-2018, 08:54 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,616,966 times
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I just wonder how much great energy related technology has been suppressed over the years thanks to the Invention Secrecy Act of 1951?
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Old 02-01-2018, 08:56 AM
 
52,430 posts, read 26,654,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
The history of coal prices going back at least half century are quite stable especially compared to the natural gas market. It's not even comparable.
Indeed. That is because coal supplies are domestic.
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Old 02-01-2018, 08:57 AM
 
52,430 posts, read 26,654,666 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post

So while you may be technically correct regarding the market cost of coal over the years, it doesn't appear that you are factoring in the true costs, the social and environmental costs of its production.
I don't think you want to go there. Because...

Keep in mind that Coal Supplies are 100% domestic.

Care to factor in the costs of all the wars the USA has fought in regards to importing oil & natural gas. Coal is very very very cheap in comparison.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:06 AM
 
Location: USA
18,502 posts, read 9,172,720 times
Reputation: 8532
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I just wonder how much great energy related technology has been suppressed over the years thanks to the Invention Secrecy Act of 1951?
In 1952, someone invented an automatic conspiracy theory generator. It was quite an amazing device, given the state of electronic technology at the time. But the generator was suppressed due to the 1951 secrecy act.
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