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View Poll Results: Are you tired yet of all the mass killings?
Yes 111 78.17%
No 31 21.83%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-16-2018, 08:48 AM
 
Location: At the corner of happy and free
6,472 posts, read 6,678,064 times
Reputation: 16346

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Did Cruz's history of mental illness ever result in a conviction or determination made in a court of law that Cruz posed a danger to himself and/or others?

Was he ever proven guilty of a crime, in a court of law, after observing due process of law and his civil liberties?

The right to keep and bear arms is a natural individual right explicitly protected by the 2nd Amendment and implicitly by the 9th and 10th Amendments. Cruz's civil liberties and right to due process are explicitly protected by the 4th-7th Amendments.

So I ask again, according the the American legal system, where nobody can be deprived of life, LIBERTY or property without due process of law, and everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and by a jury of their peers....was Cruz ever found guilty of a crime such that his natural individual rights could be stripped from him as a result of due process of law?
Ironic and sad.

 
Old 02-16-2018, 08:51 AM
 
13,961 posts, read 5,625,642 times
Reputation: 8617
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
Ironic and sad.
Depriving people of life is murder.

We have laws against it, and Cruz will be finding out how severe they are for the remainder of his miserable life on Earth.

But because he committed a crime does not make the other 325 million Americans accomplices to his deeds such that we should all forfeit our natural individual rights.
 
Old 02-16-2018, 08:56 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,733,278 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Did Cruz's history of mental illness ever result in a conviction or determination made in a court of law that Cruz posed a danger to himself and/or others?

Was he ever proven guilty of a crime, in a court of law, after observing due process of law and his civil liberties?

The right to keep and bear arms is a natural individual right explicitly protected by the 2nd Amendment and implicitly by the 9th and 10th Amendments. Cruz's civil liberties and right to due process are explicitly protected by the 4th-7th Amendments.

So I ask again, according the the American legal system, where nobody can be deprived of life, LIBERTY or property without due process of law, and everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and by a jury of their peers....was Cruz ever found guilty of a crime such that his natural individual rights could be stripped from him as a result of due process of law?
This is nonsense. We already have systems in place like 72 hr psych holds, which do not require court orders or "due process". There should have been a red flag system put into place when Cruz was expelled for making threats that would have prevented him from passing a background check. School officials, police, mental health providers all should be able to flag background checks before people get semiautomatic rifles.
 
Old 02-16-2018, 09:04 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,755 posts, read 9,647,591 times
Reputation: 13169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
We cannot start violating the civil liberties of everyone who weirds us out.
that's why we need restrictions on the types of weapons available to people.

no one NEEDS a high-capacity weapon.

since there are so many constitutional scholars posting, they should agree that every person is entitled to own a musket!
 
Old 02-16-2018, 09:05 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
A 12 gauge pump with .00
I'm not sure what makes you think a pump shotgun is the same thing as an over and under.

I mean, if I had to guess, I'd say you don't even bother to read what I said before you launch into your 10,000-word response.

Quote:
It would be classifying the Toyota light duty pickup as a tool of terrorism
No, it wouldn't, because that's a truck.
 
Old 02-16-2018, 09:08 AM
 
764 posts, read 235,214 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
This is nonsense. We already have systems in place like 72 hr psych holds, which do not require court orders or "due process". There should have been a red flag system put into place when Cruz was expelled for making threats that would have prevented him from passing a background check. School officials, police, mental health providers all should be able to flag background checks before people get semiautomatic rifles.
The problem with that is that it does not require due process to suspend a right.
 
Old 02-16-2018, 09:09 AM
 
764 posts, read 235,214 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
that's why we need restrictions on the types of weapons available to people.

no one NEEDS a high-capacity weapon.

since there are so many constitutional scholars posting, they should agree that every person is entitled to own a musket!
They are entitled to own a musket.............
 
Old 02-16-2018, 09:17 AM
 
13,961 posts, read 5,625,642 times
Reputation: 8617
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
I'm not sure what makes you think a pump shotgun is the same thing as an over and under.

I mean, if I had to guess, I'd say you don't even bother to read what I said before you launch into your 10,000-word response.
You keep pointing out shotguns by using the double barrel example specifically. I was reminding you that shotguns come in both magazine fed pump action, and magazine fed semiautomatic versions as well.

You're hung up on the semiautomatic 5.56NATO/.223 cal sporting rifle as the most lethal killing device in the firearms world, and I am going to keep trying to point out that it really isn't all that unique or dramatically more lethal than other firearms.
 
Old 02-16-2018, 09:22 AM
 
13,961 posts, read 5,625,642 times
Reputation: 8617
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
This is nonsense. We already have systems in place like 72 hr psych holds, which do not require court orders or "due process". There should have been a red flag system put into place when Cruz was expelled for making threats that would have prevented him from passing a background check. School officials, police, mental health providers all should be able to flag background checks before people get semiautomatic rifles.
No due process.

School officials should be able to strip a person's explicitly protected, natural rights without any due process whatsoever? Really? Do you honestly believe that?

Every bit of your rant reads as "let's just change the whole legal system to 'guilty upon suspicion/accusation' and defendant must prove innocence, as they are guilty until they prove otherwise."

A school official can wave a hand and remove your liberty. OK, so why stop there? Why not grant school officials the power to imprison you wit a wave of their hand as well?

Neighbor overheard you yelling, felt scared. You are now guilty of future crime, and all of your civil liberties are suspended until you can prove to someone who hates you and wants you to be powerless that you can be trusted with civil liberties again.

Jeez you folks are freaking Orwellian and terrifying.
 
Old 02-16-2018, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Arizona
7,511 posts, read 4,354,336 times
Reputation: 6164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
As a monopoly holder on force and violence, created to initiate force upon its own citizens, and to legalize/legitimize actions that would be crimes if committed by individuals (theft, murder, assault, extortion, etc)....no, I do not believe in the legitimacy of the state.

To me, initiations of force and violations of rights don't become acceptable because a majority takes a vote and decides on who is victim and how they will be victimized. Initiations of force and violations of rights are always immoral and can never be legitimate.


Quote:
"The law has been used to destroy it's own objective; It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which it's real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense." "But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder." --- The Law by Frederic Bastiat (1801-1850) French economist, statesman, and author
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