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Old 03-06-2018, 07:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
No they were not.

They were not there (in Southern Africa) before the Zulus or Xhosa people.
South Africa was not created back then. In many parts of what is now called "South Africa", the Europeans were there before bantu-speaking nations. I am pretty sure Zulus are more closely related to Europeans than the original indigenous San people of South Africa as well.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
But they were there before the Bantu-speaking groups.
The Bantus were there, and became more united organized under Shaka. Maybe you are referring to existence of Shaka Zulus empire, rather than the people existing there. The Dutch were new-comers.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
South Africa was not created back then. In many parts of what is now called "South Africa", the Europeans were there before bantu-speaking nations. I am pretty sure Zulus are more closely related to Europeans than the original indigenous San people of South Africa as well.
I said Southern Africa, not the modern nation state of South Africa. Read carefully.

And even the Zulu and Xhosa languages are closely related to the Khoi and San language despite not being in the same linguistic groups. They all use click sounds.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
The wealthiest man in history was a West African. You can actually do research (which has been proven, not made up, or a lie, that he is the wealthiest man in history).

The Mali Empire was wealthy.

And yes with enough gold, one can be wealthy.
Thats not wealth in any modern meaning of the word. Thats just a corrupt dictator living lavishly, while invading and enslaving neighboring tribes to gain more territory. You would be far better off living in modern day North Korea than being a peasant back in the day of the Mali Empire.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Thats not wealth in any modern meaning of the word. Thats just a corrupt dictator living lavishly, while invading and enslaving neighboring tribes to gain more territory. You would be far better off living in modern day North Korea than being a peasant back in the day of the Mali Empire.
I’ll take Mali. Thanks.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Obviously the presence of natural resources makes a difference. Look at Saudi Arabia for example.
The presence of natural resources is basically negative. Just looking at the top 50 richest countries in the world, there is no correlation between stones, gold, oil or anything else, and wealth. Its all about giving the people freedom. Thats what creates wealth.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
The presence of natural resources is basically negative. Just looking at the top 50 richest countries in the world, there is no correlation between stones, gold, oil or anything else, and wealth. Its all about giving the people freedom. Thats what creates wealth.
Many of these places got rich from commodifying materials of places they conquered. It’s not freedom alone. It’s more than that.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
I’ll take Mali. Thanks.
You would have a 50% chance of dying within your first year of life and your life expectancy would be less than 25 years. Horrible diseases, constant war and terrible starvation would be part of everyday life. You would dream of the luxuries of North Korea.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
The presence of natural resources is basically negative. Just looking at the top 50 richest countries in the world, there is no correlation between stones, gold, oil or anything else, and wealth. Its all about giving the people freedom. Thats what creates wealth.
Well, the apartheid gave freedom to a very limited segment of the population. Saudis have limited freedom, apart from the ruling elite. I know what you are trying to say, but a nation can benefit greatly from abundant natural resources. It is obvious.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
Many of these places got rich from commodifying materials of places they conquered. It’s not freedom alone. It’s more than that.
Simply not true. Places with no natural resources to speak of and no conquering history is just as wealthy as places with plenty of natural resources and plenty of war mongering.

When corrupt leaders are willing to give up power, status and privilege (which they almost never are willing to do), then human ingenuity can prosper. Promoting innovation and societal change is definitely not in the interest of people who sit at the top in a country with all the power.
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