Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-26-2018, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,302 posts, read 2,355,944 times
Reputation: 1230

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
From a legal standpoint, it is justified. I'd imagine some compelling arguments could be made that form a moral standpoint it's unjustified (and then presumably from a legal standpoint is should be unjustified). But societies are governed by laws, not morals. As such, it is justified for not paying taxes to be considered a crime and warranting of punishment, even if an argument could be made that the law needs to change so that it's not.
And that's the key for me. State law is irrelevant in my mind when talking about what is justified or not.

I notice that I clash with utilitarians the most (I don't think you'd qualify as one, but not sure), because they think more along the lines of "might makes right". I'll make an moral/philosophical argument and they'll just state what currently exists instead of addressing the bigger philosophical question.

The point I try to get across is that the law doesn't determine what's right or wrong. It's actually the other way around, where societal beliefs determine what the law is. That's why it's a mistake when people get into the mindset of "the law is the law, so it's wrong to disobey". No, the law is whatever politicians scribbled on paper, which may align with our idea of right and wrong, or may not...and it should always be questioned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-26-2018, 08:27 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,569,031 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
From a legal standpoint, it is justified. I'd imagine some compelling arguments could be made that form a moral standpoint it's unjustified (and then presumably from a legal standpoint is should be unjustified). But societies are governed by laws, not morals. As such, it is justified for not paying taxes to be considered a crime and warranting of punishment, even if an argument could be made that the law needs to change so that it's not.
Just because it’s a law, it doesn’t mean it’s moral, just or fair.

If what you said were true, we would still have slavery, tyranny, segregation and racial discrimination.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2018, 08:33 PM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,035,522 times
Reputation: 12513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil75230 View Post
Specifics, or are you just content to think that short simple jabs are enough to disprove what I say?

You'd think that people with so much hysteria about communism would at least have an idea of what it means. But I guess there are some people who think short catchy phrases can disprove anything (does that include the US Constitution as well? It's a longwinded document, yet certain "patriotic" types would go ape if someone dismissed it with some short clever jab.

The US Constitution, a long-winded false justification for acting like a wild animal in the wilderness, that is, freedom
.

See my point?
To the far right: communism = socialism = the USSR = paying my taxes.

That's about the extent of "logic" you get out of them, and every single link on that chain is wrong. Communism and socialism are not the same thing, there has never actually been a communist nation on this planet, and paying your taxes isn't the same as any of those things.

Unfortunately, these days any form of government action is simply labeled "communism!" or "socialism!" by the far-right in an ignorant form of fear-mongering. They make exceptions, of course, for "good" government action, such as enforcing their theocratic desires - funny how that works - but that's the extent of it. Sadly, this fact-free scare tactic is remarkably effective at getting out the vote. Most of them would gladly elect an actual communist - lacking any understanding - if scared into doing so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2018, 09:23 PM
 
23,654 posts, read 17,514,296 times
Reputation: 7472

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpnFeyMGUs8

Niall Ferguson: The 6 killer apps of prosperity
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2018, 09:42 PM
 
23,654 posts, read 17,514,296 times
Reputation: 7472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
To the far right: communism = socialism = the USSR = paying my taxes.

That's about the extent of "logic" you get out of them, and every single link on that chain is wrong. Communism and socialism are not the same thing, there has never actually been a communist nation on this planet, and paying your taxes isn't the same as any of those things.

Unfortunately, these days any form of government action is simply labeled "communism!" or "socialism!" by the far-right in an ignorant form of fear-mongering. They make exceptions, of course, for "good" government action, such as enforcing their theocratic desires - funny how that works - but that's the extent of it. Sadly, this fact-free scare tactic is remarkably effective at getting out the vote. Most of them would gladly elect an actual communist - lacking any understanding - if scared into doing so.
Wasn't the actual Communist Obama? After all he was raised by Communists. He wanted to fundamentally change our country and he did a lot of that for sure but it was to weaken us. He said he wanted us to be like the other countries so that meant weaken our military and all the other things he did, eg. pitting one group over another.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2018, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,142 posts, read 10,713,172 times
Reputation: 9799
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Actually alot of scientific research is funded through government grants because surprise surprise the perfect free market doesn't provide the best incentive for research.
Where does the government get money from, again? Oh yeah, they take it from the capitalists.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2018, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,941,945 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
Where does the government get money from, again? Oh yeah, they take it from the capitalists.
So what the point I am making is the free market is not the best mechanism for technological advance or research. It is good for generating wealth but the real advances come from a top down approach the government provides. The free market is fine I am not a communist who wants to abolish it but I support taxes and regulations. Laissez-faire capitalism is an unmitigated disaster.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2018, 07:47 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,569,031 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
So what the point I am making is the free market is not the best mechanism for technological advance or research. It is good for generating wealth but the real advances come from a top down approach the government provides. The free market is fine I am not a communist who wants to abolish it but I support taxes and regulations. Laissez-faire capitalism is an unmitigated disaster.
Name one human advancement that is not made by the capitalism.

The free market not only is the best system, but also is the ONLY moral system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2018, 07:50 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,569,031 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Self made or not, their class does not depend on birth conditions but their role in the society.
What role? It's not like all the XXXnaires collude together to control the under class.

People are in and out of different income or wealth levels all the time by making their own decisions, right or wrong.

The whole idea of class warfare is so 18th-19th century.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2018, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,941,945 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post

The free market not only is the best system, but also is the ONLY moral system.
It may very well be the best system but there is nothing moral about it. Plenty of atrocities have been committed by capitalists.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:01 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top