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1. Labor is a necessity for each individual being those who can’t work need some else’s labor to live. If you can’t work then your freedoms are naturally restricted; nonetheless the products needed for you to survive will be available (but you must live in a community for that or have someone who can produce live with you).
2. Even then you must have some communication with the outside world. People can’t live without using the shared earth we have and any usage of public resources affects others. All our actions affect other people in this world, it’s not sustainable to have a system that ignores this reality
3. Capitalism is based off of greed, do you really expect for no one to claim the unclaimed land at some point? Once that happens travel is limited to only your immediate property.
Communism is based off greed too
its the greed of the communes leaders, having all those slaves working for them
no individuality, no creativeness, no ingenuity, just the mundaneness of the hive
His followers like Lenin turned to authoritarianism and away from workers freedom but that is not on Marx.
Though the anarchist in Spain and Latin America had a better idea in how to implement his ideas. Rather than giving the power to the state and then expecting it to voluntarily remove it self we should build an economy from the bottom with workers cooperatives until the point the state has no power left.
So I'll day that, his ideas about how to get there were wrongish but that wasn't his main focus anyways.
Come on, we can all love Marx. Peace and love to everyone here
Why is it that the more fully his theories are applied, the more they fail, and then people claim that it is "not on Marx"? I think it says a great deal that it requires very rarefied conditions to succeed at all.
In truth, Marxism is such a Rube Goldberg economic system that it leads to diminished prosperity and freedom wherever it is applied.
There is no hierarchy of power in anarcho-syndicalism, individual freedom can only be achieved through freedom of labor.
how wrong can you be
if there is no private property
if there is no individualism
then there MUST be some form of hierarchy of power...who is organizing the who, what, when, where
who is organizing the '''care''' of Sally the disabled girl who can NOT produce
no individuality, no creativeness, no ingenuity, just the slavery the hive's hierarchy of power
Oh Brother without the 'r' where do I begin with this? The same schtick that any Jehovah's Witness, Scientologist, Amway sales rep, & so on ... & with the same o lame o schpiel. Give it a break please. "If only you would accept (fill in the blank) as your Savior", blah blah blathering. "Accept the 'free market' into your heart" ad nauseam ad infinitum.
Your come to your your 'conclusions' by beginning with premises, it's circular & loopy.
Your convictions make convicts. Just stop. Break out.
Imagine your 'framework' as a literal frame. You've squashed the whole wide world inside that tiny frame. It's not only nonsensical, it's grim & dystopian at best. Imagine me outside your puny framework, while you are trapped inside it. I'm wishing you weren't so self-imprisoned, & busily building brick by brick & bar by bar - the prison.
I'm not "angry" at you, I simply do not want what you are selling.
I'm not selling you anything.
Whether you accept it or not or if I accept it or not the facts still remain: a human being is born into poverty and has not been "socially contracted" into any agreement. Anarchy/capitalism are the natural state of a human being.
I agree. You claim divine intervention allows the newborn to consent...which is ironic because of your religious remark trying to pin religious overtones on me.
You're the one that follows religious law (Social Contract, logic and morality change depending on the situation) with the State as your messiah.
I don't suspend moral and logical consistency for the sake of convenience. You do.
if there is no private property
if there is no individualism
then there MUST be some form of hierarchy of power...who is organizing the who, what, when, where
who is organizing the '''care''' of Sally the disabled girl who can NOT produce
no individuality, no creativeness, no ingenuity, just the slavery the hive's hierarchy of power
There is individual freedom but exists within the context of the wider community and shared resources.
There is individual freedom but exists within the context of the wider community and shared resources.
wrong
there is no individuality...you are directed to do your assigned job (whether you are good at it or not) enslaved by the leadership of the commune, directed to what you will do, when you will do, how much you will do
no individuality, no creativeness, no ingenuity, and no innovation..... a slave with zero social/economical movement
there is no individuality...you are directed to do your assigned job (whether you are good at it or not) enslaved by the leadership of the commune, directed to what you will do, when you will do, how much you will do
no individuality, no creativeness, no ingenuity, and no innovation..... a slave with zero social/economical movement
There is a lot on nonsense here. Workers are free to live there life as they want and produce based off of their needs.
Oh Brother without the 'r' where do I begin with this? The same schtick that any Jehovah's Witness, Scientologist, Amway sales rep, & so on ... & with the same o lame o schpiel. Give it a break please. "If only you would accept (fill in the blank) as your Savior", blah blah blathering. "Accept the 'free market' into your heart" ad nauseam ad infinitum.
Your come to your your 'conclusions' by beginning with premises, it's circular & loopy.
Your convictions make convicts. Just stop. Break out.
Imagine your 'framework' as a literal frame. You've squashed the whole wide world inside that tiny frame. It's not only nonsensical, it's grim & dystopian at best. Imagine me outside your puny framework, while you are trapped inside it. I'm wishing you weren't so self-imprisoned, & busily building brick by brick & bar by bar - the prison.
I'm not "angry" at you, I simply do not want what you are selling.
We get that you think the result of non-aggression and respecting property would be a disaster, and we strongly disagree.
One thing I want to clear up...what you're describing as "squishing the whole wide world inside a tiny framework" is called having principles. A principle is a line you draw in the sand. I'm sure you hold the principle that rape is never acceptable, right?
Imagine talking to someone who argues that just a tiny bit of rape should be acceptable, and you're not going along with it. You get this response...
"You're oversimplifying things and sound like a religious nut. Imagine me outside your puny framework, while you are trapped inside it. I'm wishing you weren't so self-imprisoned, & busily building brick by brick & bar by bar - the prison."
They've framed you as being narrow-minded for not being willing to compromise and see the nuance of rape. It's honestly not even an argument. (And if you don't like the example of rape, replace it with anything else you're unwilling to compromise on.)
Last edited by T0103E; 05-16-2018 at 09:53 AM..
Reason: Spacing issues...
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where do I begin with this? The same schtick that any Jehovah's Witness, Scientologist, Amway sales rep, & so on ... & with the same o lame o schpiel. Give it a break please. "If only you would accept (fill in the blank) as your Savior", blah blah blathering. "Accept the 'free market' into your heart" ad nauseam ad infinitum. 
