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A healthy community requires more than "free trade without state interference". Education & healthcare fr'instance. "Gallbladders ‘R’ Us", X-Rays ‘R’ Us" & "Reading Writing & Arithmetic 'R' Us" are neither suitable nor functional replacements.
In your opinion. Maybe you like government schooling and healthcare, but that doesn't give you any right to force it on everyone else.
Quote:
There are many reality-based examples refuting "Tragedy of the commons is solved by private property", here are just 3:
The Cuyahoga River in Ohio caught fire more than 3 times because it was so polluted by industrial waste, today it's clean.
The Exxon-Valdez Oil Spill.
Love Canal & the Hooker Chemical and Plastics Corporation.
Private ownership of 'property' is not always the best 'solution', insisting it is so is an example of the 'false dilemma/dichotomy' logical fallacy.
Respect for human life goes a long way.
On the last sentence, that's why I want humanity to be free to make their own choices in life.
As for the examples, I don't see how private ownership is to blame. I know in the case of the Cuyohoga River that the people polluting it weren't the owners. Pretty sure it's a public waterway...
Just generally, the point is that there's more incentive to maintain property that you own.
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If you're saying US Congress is being bribed by corporate special interests, no refute.
That 'seats' in Congress are sold on the free market like seats on the NYSE, no refute.
Simply condemning government without considering the free market corporate special interests systems underlying, (i.e. our government is the best that money can buy) is dysfunctional. That is, if pragmatic, & plausible problem-solving in real-time reality is the objective. Consider democracy as a better alternative.
Acknowledging you guys are routinely down on democracy.
Historically & based on reality, unregulated economies lead to competition resulting in waves of business failures, followed by the rise of monopolies, which are then followed by abuses of power.
Many examples of this, just 1:
When the Savings & Loan industry was deregulated in the 80s, fraud & abuse quickly ran rampant, many business failed ...
Removing government regulation, or government altogether, is not a panacea.
Well first, it's not primarily meant as a panacea, but is a moral stance..like being anti-rape isn't a panacea or solution in itself. That said, I also completely disagree with you on what works best in reality. I don't have much background on the savings and loan industry of the 80's, so I can't comment on that.
What I will say is that I'm extremely skeptical whenever deregulation is blamed... the problem is always deregulation...if only we had even more micromanagement and new laws on top of the countless others that exist... I think back to the 09 recession which was blamed on deregulation, which is laughable. That's a whole new topic, and I suppose an assertion is fine on my part, since that's all you provided. Saves me time and energy, so I'm alright leaving it at that.
Because a state is an authority that rules over the workers. Greatness comes the community, not a hierarchy.
you speak, without knowing...
community...Marxism(communism) still has AUTHORITY over the people....
there MUST be some form of leadership
and with some form of leadership...no matter how fair or equal you may think it is... someone will still have their feelings hurt
A healthy community requires more than "free trade without state interference". Education & healthcare fr'instance. "Gallbladders ‘R’ Us", X-Rays ‘R’ Us" & "Reading Writing & Arithmetic 'R' Us" are neither suitable nor functional replacements.
There are many reality-based examples refuting "Tragedy of the commons is solved by private property", here are just 3:
The Cuyahoga River in Ohio caught fire more than 3 times because it was so polluted by industrial waste, today it's clean.
The Exxon-Valdez Oil Spill.
Love Canal & the Hooker Chemical and Plastics Corporation.
Private ownership of 'property' is not always the best 'solution', insisting it is so is an example of the 'false dilemma/dichotomy' logical fallacy.
Respect for human life goes a long way.
If you're saying US Congress is being bribed by corporate special interests, no refute.
That 'seats' in Congress are sold on the free market like seats on the NYSE, no refute.
Simply condemning government without considering the free market corporate special interests systems underlying, (i.e. our government is the best that money can buy) is dysfunctional. That is, if pragmatic, & plausible problem-solving in real-time reality is the objective. Consider democracy as a better alternative.
Acknowledging you guys are routinely down on democracy.
Historically & based on reality, unregulated economies lead to competition resulting in waves of business failures, followed by the rise of monopolies, which are then followed by abuses of power.
Many examples of this, just 1:
When the Savings & Loan industry was deregulated in the 80s, fraud & abuse quickly ran rampant, many business failed ...
Removing government regulation, or government altogether, is not a panacea.
the love canal started out as a commune William love envisioned a perfect urban area called "Model City".
the dump ..SANCTIONED and built by the CITY was closed in 1952
Hooker Chemical Company needed a place to dispose its large quantity of chemical waste.
The Commune/city/municipality granted permission to Hooker in 1942 to dump wastes into the canal.
Hooker DID TAKE PRECAUTIONS and he canal was drained and lined with thick clay. Into this site, Hooker began placing 55-US-gallon drums
In early 1952, when it became apparent that the site would likely be developed for construction BY THE COMMUNE, Hooker ceased use of Love Canal as a dumpsite, and the dump was closed
1952/3, the city of Niagara Falls was experiencing a population boom. With a growing population, the Niagara Falls City School District needed land to build new schools and purchased the property from Hooker Chemical, fully knowing that the chemical company had dumped chemical barrels in the CITY DUMP
the commune had its hands deep in it...this wasn't just private business..this was private business doing whta the COMMUNE ALLOWED
In your opinion. Maybe you like government schooling and healthcare, but that doesn't give you any right to force it on everyone else.
On the last sentence, that's why I want humanity to be free to make their own choices in life.
As for the examples, I don't see how private ownership is to blame. I know in the case of the Cuyohoga River that the people polluting it weren't the owners. Pretty sure it's a public waterway...
Just generally, the point is that there's more incentive to maintain property that you own.
Well first, it's not primarily meant as a panacea, but is a moral stance..like being anti-rape isn't a panacea or solution in itself. That said, I also completely disagree with you on what works best in reality. I don't have much background on the savings and loan industry of the 80's, so I can't comment on that.
What I will say is that I'm extremely skeptical whenever deregulation is blamed... the problem is always deregulation...if only we had even more micromanagement and new laws on top of the countless others that exist... I think back to the 09 recession which was blamed on deregulation, which is laughable. That's a whole new topic, and I suppose an assertion is fine on my part, since that's all you provided. Saves me time and energy, so I'm alright leaving it at that.
If your rationale is a healthy functional community consists of nothing more than "free trade without state interference", how is that not a panacea?
In an earlier post you claimed, "Tragedy of the commons is solved by private property" ~ how is this assertion not a panacea?
Out of all the loopy circular arguments, obsessively reducing people to property is likely the worst of the 'reductio ad absurdum' assertions. Why not consider the more reasonable proposition that no one owns anybody, either himself or anyone else, nor any share of anybody?
& have you figured out a way to coherently justify the initial acquisition of property? How does something that was once unowned become owned without forcefully & non-consensually destroying others’ liberty?
You're literally at ground & time zero with no way forward.
One of the greater ironies of this particular thread is the competing anarchists, 1 favoring labor, the other free market fundamentalist thought-views.
Why all the 'black/white absolutism' 'all or nothing' 'perfect solution' 'Nirvana fallacy' fantasizing? Imagine the opportunity costs alone? Mostly mental masturbatory at best. What gives?
Karl Marx wrote (in his Eleventh Thesis on Feuerbach) "Philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it".
You guys are very clearly down on democracy yet ... you have no game.
the love canal started out as a commune William love envisioned a perfect urban area called "Model City".
the dump ..SANCTIONED and built by the CITY was closed in 1952
Hooker Chemical Company needed a place to dispose its large quantity of chemical waste.
The Commune/city/municipality granted permission to Hooker in 1942 to dump wastes into the canal.
Hooker DID TAKE PRECAUTIONS and he canal was drained and lined with thick clay. Into this site, Hooker began placing 55-US-gallon drums
In early 1952, when it became apparent that the site would likely be developed for construction BY THE COMMUNE, Hooker ceased use of Love Canal as a dumpsite, and the dump was closed
1952/3, the city of Niagara Falls was experiencing a population boom. With a growing population, the Niagara Falls City School District needed land to build new schools and purchased the property from Hooker Chemical, fully knowing that the chemical company had dumped chemical barrels in the CITY DUMP
the commune had its hands deep in it...this wasn't just private business..this was private business doing whta the COMMUNE ALLOWED
Cut to the chase already, what the heck is your point? Where's your fantastical 'invisible hand' in all this?
What about the mythology that everyone acting in their own individual self-interest somehow magically creates unintended societal & community benefits?
Maybe it's called 'invisible' because it's simply not there, non-existent, faith-based.
Or, it sometimes works like this in real-time reality (granted that is 1 heck of a concept imagine real life & not some lame & hare-brained substitute?):
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imagine real life & not some lame & hare-brained substitute?):