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In addition to the fact that you might be dead as a result....let's use this occasion to remind ourselves (each - and our friends) not to be citizen enforcers...
We know a woman who would probably have been shot (or shot someone) if she lived in Florida. She is the type of person who knocks on car windows in a store parking lot and tells the people to turn their car off (there is a 2 minute state rule in some places).
In other words, she minds everyone else's business.
We have a disabled daughter so I always do think (to myself...or say to my wife) when people not in need use the handicapped spaces..and, yes, it's OK in most cases to use the toilet. I'm talking about the parking spaces....so, you look over and you think to yourself "that person needs an education". Now...where you go wrong is if you appoint yourself as the teacher. Even if you do, you have to do it super-respectfully and hopefully you have direct experience "Hey friend, my daughter is disabled and we are unable to park anywhere near the store- could you do us a favor and try not to use these spots"....
Obviously it is our "gun culture" that resulted in killing over such a ridiculous situation - it wouldn't have happened in Canada or Europe (or vastly less odds). That said, gun culture is real...so those who want to live in health have to walk with fear through public spaces in Florida (especially - high population, high crime, no roots, etc.)...
Back in the old days some of the other patrons would have put a stop to it, held the two in check and called the Police. But those are the olden days. Now we just finish it right on the spot and snuff out a life. Sad excuse for a "culture".
It isn't gun culture.
I have no fear walking anywhere in Florida. Not because I carry, because I do not go looking to harass or assault anyone for any reason.
Criminals are not protected here like they are back in NY or MA.
Initiate violence you are met with whatever violence your victim deems necessary to terminate the event, up to and including, ending your life.
There is no duty to retreat. There is no "call the police" and have them come deal with it being mandatory like in NY or MA, although you can. That's your choice.
I find it comical how many people here will excuse criminal behavior and woe is them. That isn't how it works down here.
Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.
Put hands on someone. Threaten someone. Pose a risk or threat to someone's property or life. You violate someone with physical force. You open yourself to whatever happens next.
Florida doesn't protect criminals.
You don't see riots down here. If there were riots here like the DC riots on inauguration day... it wouldn't end well for those unhinged smashing windows burning cars etc.
You don't see those little scrimmages like out in Berkeley or Portland either. Assault someone while wearing a mask. Game over.
You don't see junkies breaking into houses to steal whatever isn't bolted down or locked to support a habit.
You don't see on the local news, a story about a woman who was raped then murdered and her body found in a dumpster like back in NY.
You don't see a story about a kidnapping in broad day light from a park or front/back yard.
We don't have the scourge of the earth protected by good feels laws.
Initiate violence, commit a forcible felony, pose a threat to someone's life or property. You waived your rights to due process.
That's the way it should be everywhere. It works. For some it's mind boggling.
I find it mind boggling the lengths of mental gymnastics one will go to protect a criminal.
The moment you initiate force against another, you waived your rights to due process.
Quote:
so those who want to live in health have to walk with fear through public spaces in Florida
Wrong. More like those who want to live in health by harming others, have to walk with fear through public spaces in Florida.
If you're going to do harm to others. You open yourself to what happens next.
When multiple posters discretely bring race into the discussion, you know.
Rakin: she's probably on welfare
Urban Adventurer: 'homeboy' deserved to get capped
etc.
We know the dog whistles. We know the buzz-words.
So do you.
The people bringing race into this story are irrelevant. Just because some racists are happy at the end result doesn't mean we should needlessly subject a man through the stress and financial burden of a capital crime legal defense.
I agree, to argue that he started it or brought this on, just for arguing with someone who was doing something illegal is ridiculous.
You don't even need to be a gun owner or even have a gun.
You can kill with a knife. Your bare hands even.
It's knowing this states laws.
If you are physically assaulted in NY you can shove a person to get them away, and have a duty to retreat. Rely on an adult in the room if you will, to handle your life's problems.
If you go blow for blow with them, you are just as equally as guilty as your aggressor and may even be subject to felony aggravated assault/murder if you really mess someone up. You break someone's nose, break their jaw, while defending yourself in NY, they can press charges and it's you, the victim who was attacked, who gets jail. Knock teeth out? You just paid for dental work for the person that attacked you.
Not down here.
You get in a confrontation. You didn't initiate it but you ended it with a hay maker and knocked someone out cold, broke their nose, broke their jaw. That's on them. Not you. They initiated force.
So it stands. Don't want to spend the rest of your days in a coffin? Don't harm anyone. Don't initiate violence upon anyone. It's quite a simple thing to do. Keep your hands to yourself.
Go initiate violence here, you're making the choice to risk your own life in doing so.
It's a very simple thing here.
1. Don't threaten anyone.
2. Don't put hands on anyone.
3. Don't try to steal from someone or break and enter or car jack them.
4. Don't initiate force or harm against someone.
You won't have anything to worry about. It's very simple.
Ironically, the same group of SJWs who shame and complain about whites calling the cops in blacks are now saying he should have done that here. They created a culture where people are afraid to call police on certain groups. But I doubt good people will let crime slide. Now they will take things into their own hands like in this case.
TBH, when I saw the videos of people calling 911 on the girl selling water without a permit etc, I was angry too. Though social media lynch mobs executing their own form of justice - no way.
In this case, calling 911 is inappropriate as well. Someone parking in a handicap spot is not an emergency. You don't call 911 over it. You do what he did, confront the people to see if they will change. Confronting them doesn't give them license to assault you. What a bizarre thug world we live in to see so many posters attempt this defense.
What's wrong with trying to politely get people to uphold the law? If you see someone being assaulted should you just walk away and quietly call 911? If you see someone littering, should you call 911 or confront them?
I don't think there is anything wrong with confronting people when they're blatantly disrespecting societal norms.
This may be true in a civil and polite society. But try it in many areas in Florida or elsewhere and you will be - at the minimum - told off. Or worse....
Assaulted, as I'm sure you understand, is not the same as telling someone their car is running or that they don't have a handicapped tag. Even 20 years ago we would not have hesitated to tell someone they did wrong if they parked in a handicapped space.
But this was before all 50 states legalized concealed carry. This was tens of millions of handguns ago. This was before "stand your ground".
Things change and if you still follow the old rules you are putting yourself and your family in danger. Now you have to mind your own business more than before.
This is the price we pay. But I'm not going to deny reality (I'm not a gun guy)....lots of arses walking around with guns. Lots of druggies and mentally ill and angry people too. Legally...or illegally. Hardly matters.
Also the "I can do as I please" culture has taken hold - more in some places than others. If people choose to be uncivilized...believe me, you and I ain't gonna fix it.
TBH, when I saw the videos of people calling 911 on the girl selling water without a permit etc, I was angry too. Though social media lynch mobs executing their own form of justice - no way.
In this case, calling 911 is inappropriate as well. Someone parking in a handicap spot is not an emergency. You don't call 911 over it. You do what he did, confront the people to see if they will change. Confronting them doesn't give them license to assault you. What a bizarre thug world we live in to see so many posters attempt this defense.
Being pushed doesn't give them license to shoot and kill you. What a bizarre thug world we live in to see so many posters attempt this defense.
But why shouldn't they? The state of Florida apparently sees nothing wrong with returning a shove with lethal force. You can legally kill in cold blood in Florida and the state will pat you on the head, politely return your gun to you, and sanction you to go on and kill again.
TBH, when I saw the videos of people calling 911 on the girl selling water without a permit etc, I was angry too. Though social media lynch mobs executing their own form of justice - no way.
In this case, calling 911 is inappropriate as well. Someone parking in a handicap spot is not an emergency. You don't call 911 over it. You do what he did, confront the people to see if they will change. Confronting them doesn't give them license to assault you. What a bizarre thug world we live in to see so many posters attempt this defense.
This may have some truth - but being as the guy had a history of casing those parking spaces and doing the same thing, this is not a one-off. Rather it is someone who has appointed themselves as a vigilante.
Again, in an ideal world it would be a great thing to do. In gun culture it is not. Live and learn.
Being pushed doesn't give them license to shoot and kill you.
Of course it doesn't, and no where in SYG does it say it does. You're either spinning this or unable to intellectually grasp how SYG applied.
SYG allows you to use deadly force to prevent bodily harm. It allows you to use deadly force to prevent being shoved, not as a revenge for a shove.
We can only speculate what was in the man's mind as he was lying crumpled on the ground with a deranged, violent individual over him. But it falls under the umbrella of SYG and reasonable doubt that he needed to shoot the individual to prevent himself from being assaulted again.
So the man is at fault because he doesn't spend time at the gym to build up his legs and strength? Personally I don't think he should have shot the man, but YOU or I don't know his state of mind at the time of the incident or any other associated facts. Since by your standards he was a "girly" man, perhaps he felt his life was in danger. By the way I can tell you that one can knock just about anyone down, strong or not, if they are not prepared for the onslaught....it's not that hard to do!
I think the situation could have been avoided if the man had minded his own business. There are several junctures of this situation where people did what they should not have. Each party bares responsibility.
Its kind of like how some women will get all up in a mans face talking down and threatening them and maybe even physically attacking them. However, if a man retaliates with full force, the women would not be able to fend the guy off and prevent serious physical harm. Granted, I have seen women kick a man's butt....more than a few times, but the men were generally much smaller than then.
Don't talk ***** if you cannot back it up without a gun.....because it will lead to you having to use that gun. That is all I am saying. Another thing is why are people always assuming that black people are going to kill them?
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