Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think Allen West has hit the nail on the head with this article. Despite being illegal for the city of Seattle to enact its own firearm laws, they went ahead and gave the middle finger to the very government's laws they are suppose to follow and enforce and passed an illegal law in which they demand a $25.00 tax on firearms and a tax of 0.20 on each round of ammunition sold. The city council claims they will take the tax to fund some type of BS gun safety research and prevention measures. The whole program is modeled after the city of Chicago , which despite all the gun taxes and some of strictest firearm laws in the country, has one of the highest gun homicide rates in the country. Of course, many criminals don't buy their guns in stores, especially not in Seattle, itself. They will continue committing their crimes and breaking the laws. This entire measure is designed to punish law abiding citizens who dare punish the autocratic city-state of Seattle.
Despite the fact that more people are probably killed in Seattle due to people texting and playing on their smartphones while driving or walking (people hit by cars), the city of Seattle will not dare put a tax on smartphones used to fund a program used to research phone and texting deaths and dangers. No, because people with phones do not threaten the authority of the government and banning phones is not popular among the leftists, as they enjoy using their phones, despite how many more people are killed using them.
Anyhow, despite Washington being a preemption state, the city of SEattle thinks it is above the law. In fact, by them passing the measure they did, they are breaking the law and the city council members are committing a crime. If they actually attempt to enforce these laws and attempt to collect such a tax or punish gun owners /merchants for not collecting the tax, I think these city council members should be arrested and convicted of a criminal offense and serve time in jail, like any other person who commits a crime in the state. Politicians are not above the law.
Not only is the illegal measure they passed foolish, illegal and unenforceable, it will result in long court battles which will cost the taxpayers a lot of money. The city of Seattle has been sued and paid out large fines in the past when it imposed illegal gun laws and taxpayers had to foot the bill.
And, for those who are utterly against guns and think its justified, no matter what, I want to pose a question to you all. What if tomorrow the Seattle City Council said that it is illegal to be a homosexual or criminalize gay marriage, despite now being backed up by the federal government under our Constitution? Would you then cry out and scream injustice and use these very laws as your justification?
Of course, the 2nd Amendment is a Constitutional right that many states want to suppress, unlike the freedom of sexual orientation under our 1st Amendment rights, as passed by our Supreme Court recently.
Now, if you believe that our politicians should follow the laws, then why should Seattle blatantly pass an illegal law and demand it be enforced? Of course, this law will sooner or later be struck down since it clearly violates Washington state law. However, I would like to know the taxpayer and resident of the city of Seattle will pay the bill and has a volatile city government who thinks they are above the law and can take matters into their own hands.
Is this right? Should both gun owners and residents of Seattle suffer from a volatile city government who refuses to follow the laws it is suppose to abide by? Tomorrow it could be a law banning blacks or gay people.
I believe the city council members who voted for this law should at least lose their jobs and those who seek to have it enforced be arrested and given appropriate jail terms, fines and suffer legal ramifications for blatantly violating laws. Perhaps, politicians get immunity to committing crimes, but it doesn't mean I think it is fair!
Last edited by RotseCherut; 08-27-2015 at 02:00 AM..
City Council should be arrested for trying to pass a law that the state happens to preempt? Talk about dramatic. I worked at the City Attorney's office in Seattle. State preemption issues pop up all the time when local governments try to pass new regulation within their municipal code.
Also, the argument that the tax is not proper because people who legally buy guns are not the problem is a bit of a fallacy. Alcohol has a substantial tax, and I'm sure some of those funds go into programs to combat alcohol abuse and what have you. Does it make any sort of sense to say that premium, expensive wines should not be taxed, since those people who can afford to buy those wines are not the problem? No, of course not.
Also, it's amusing to compare the right to bear a firearm to the right to marry whomever you want. Apples to oranges.
People who legally buy guns many times are a problem! Many shooters end up being people who had no PREVIOUS criminal record so there was no roadblock to buying a gun. They just get angry, they snap one day and shoot someone. That is the day they became a criminal- but it is too late at that point, they already have a gun.
People who legally buy guns many times are a problem! Many shooters end up being people who had no PREVIOUS criminal record so there was no roadblock to buying a gun. They just get angry, they snap one day and shoot someone. That is the day they became a criminal- but it is too late at that point, they already have a gun.
This has nothing to do with Seattle trying to generate more funding for combating the wave of gun crime happening not only across the U.S., but also in Seattle (the shooting outside the Baltic Room two weeks ago, for instance). To implement a new plan to combat gun crime, you need funding. Increasing taxes on firearms and ammunition is about as reasonably related as it gets.
People who legally buy guns many times are a problem! Many shooters end up being people who had no PREVIOUS criminal record so there was no roadblock to buying a gun.
They just get angry, they snap one day and shoot someone. That is the day they became a criminal- but it is too late at that point, they already have a gun.
HAAA BS!! The problem is ignorant people who spend all day watching the news.. In fact, a majority of crimes are caused by repeated offenders and many criminals involved in gun-related homicides have acquired their guns through illegal means. Please post some statistics to back up your totally bogus statements!
Yeah, law abiding citizens are just buying guns, then just suddenly get angry and start shooting everyone. This is a horrible problem. I think, perhaps, we need to just allow criminals to have guns and make it illegal for law abiding citizens to own guns, since law abiding citizens are going around murdering everyone when they are angry, but criminals have some respect and just murder people under more reasonable circumstances. For example,. not complying with orders to hand over cash, cheating someone on a drug deal or perhaps infringing upon another criminal's business enterprise. Indeed, criminals are much more trustworthy. Please post your statistics about how legal gun owners are going around murdering everyone. A majority of the gun crimes in this country happen in areas with a lot of poverty, gangs and drug problems.
Please do not use Google News as your source for gun homicide related information. Yes, some madman goes around shooting people and suddenly law abiding citizens are all murderers when they put their hands on a gun. This is like saying that all people who drive cars are child killers, because some person splattered a little girl walking to school all over the sidewalk while she was texting on her phone. Indeed, don't put a phone in the hand of a person because they will become child killers when they get behind the wheel!
Oh crap, did I post this thread in the Seattle City Data Forum, I guess I should have realized that common sense and rational thinking were not going to be utilized in this discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatsbyGatz
This has nothing to do with Seattle trying to generate more funding for combating the wave of gun crime happening not only across the U.S., but also in Seattle (the shooting outside the Baltic Room two weeks ago, for instance). To implement a new plan to combat gun crime, you need funding. Increasing taxes on firearms and ammunition is about as reasonably related as it gets.
BS.. You are a wrong once again. Seattle is not suffering from a crime wave. In fact, Seattle has one of the lowest gun homicide rates in the country and they have not needed a gun tax on law abiding citizens to keep the murders low. In fact, all the gun tax does is make it harder for law abiding citizens to acquire guns which they can use to defend themselves against those criminals who possesses guns. Indeed, gun laws were never designed to punish criminals or keep guns out of the hands of criminals. If that was the case, then why does California have one of the most heavily armed criminal populations, despite having, perhaps, the strictest gun control in the USA? In fact, Californian cities suffer a much higher rate of gun homicide, despite having the country's strictest gun control. The government has succeeded at keeping guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, but the criminals are heavily armed and committing crimes. My friend lives in Vallejo and somebody was shot outside his house, in what was suppose to be a respectable neighborhood. It turns out it was a drug deal gone bad. Considering it is a against the law to conceal carry a gun in Vallejo, don't you think the criminals could have respected the laws?
You forget that guns are already heavily taxed in the city of Seattle which has already a 10% Use Tax on gun purchases and almost 10% Sales Tax on all firearm accessories and ammunition. These taxes are more than adequate to fund gun safety and prevention programs. However, these measures are usually useless and hardly help prevent any gun crimes, as we have seen in the city of Chicago. They should take those funds from the gun sales and use them to spend extra money funding the dangers of cell phones, such as people texting or browsing and driving, as well as STDs and drugs, both which Seattle has a great problem with.
And, of course, nobody seems to give a crap that the city of Seattle is not allowed to instate a gun tax. You all say its ok for the city of Seattle to follow the laws when it is to defend the rights of gay people, but the city of Seattle has every right to break the Washington state laws if the laws revolve around guns, which you are all convinced that all law abiding gun owners use to murder innocent people. A good majority of Seattle's murders are criminals killing criminals. Does it matter many of those criminals who have committed murders also sell drugs? If you cannot stop them from getting drugs, how are you going to stop them from getting guns?
So, once again, you support the city of Seattle to break the Washington state law when it suits you. Well, my opinion is that a governing body that does not follow the laws will sooner or later start enforcing laws that one day people will despise and will result in draconian measures.
How about, next year, the city of Seattle votes for a law saying the police have full permission to do vehicle searches , can come search your house without a warrant or have rights to use excessive force in questionable situations? I look forward to when the city government one day passes a law that one will hit you personally. Allowing a city government to be above the law is dangerous and people in Seattle will eventually suffer for reckless city council who disregards the laws of our state.
OH yeah, and BTW, whether you hate guns or not, all that will result by the Seattle city government trying to enforce the law will be fines, fines and more fines and you people get to foot the bill! Considering the replies here, I guess most of you deserve it.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,585 posts, read 81,243,006 times
Reputation: 57825
Without entering the controversy over gun control and rights, this is just another example of the City of Seattle passing a politically correct "feel-good" law that really won't matter. How hard is it for the gun buyer to avoid the tax by crossing the bridge to buy their weapons and ammunition in Bellevue or some other nearby city without such a law?
Man, gun talk sure brings out and highlights the special snowflakes of this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140
Without entering the controversy over gun control and rights, this is just another example of the City of Seattle passing a politically correct "feel-good" law that really won't matter. How hard is it for the gun buyer to avoid the tax by crossing the bridge to buy their weapons and ammunition in Bellevue or some other nearby city without such a law?
A lot of people would avoid the tax hike by buying outside of Seattle, but that doesn't change the fact that the city will still generate some net tax gain, which of course is the purpose of the plan.
I've got no idea whether spending revenue from increased taxes on gun and ammo is going to result in less gun violence. Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. But...governments have to get their revenue somehow. And some revenues are easier to increase. Most people who live in Seattle don't have guns. So they're not going to care whether taxes get raised for other people. There was a ballot issue a few years ago to tax espresso to raise money for education. It got defeated by the voters. Because everybody drinks coffee, and nobody wants to pay more for it. I'm not arguing the merits of the gun and ammo tax, all I'm saying was that it was easy to do because of the relatively small number of gun owners within the city proper. It was low hanging fruit. Whether it's legal or not, it appears that it is, as they're doing this tax in Chicago. Worthy of doing? I don't know. What's the best way of reducing gun violence?
Not only will the gun and ammo tax not increase revenues, it will decrease them and with all the fines the city will be facing and court battles and legal fees for imposing an illegal law (which is illegal, BTW, did I mention that?), they will not only not gain revenue but suck revenue away from the city. The city of Seattle did not pass this law to gain revenue or to actually fund research or classes to stop gun violence. This is a political ploy that is entirely about banning guns and enforcing gun control, where the sneaky city failed before. Yes, the city of Seattle hates gun owners, but our guns and the right to own them are protected by our laws. What is the point of having laws if we refuse to follow them? Let me present another hypothetical, yet potentially real situation. What if the city of Spokane, in a few years from now, decided to ban gays, because an anti-gay city council was elected? Should it pass, since the people of Spokane think homosexuality is wrong? Many of us can argue guns save more lives than they kill and they are used for sport, hobby, self-defense, etc. Gun ownership, just like freedom of worship and a person's sexual orientation is a right and if they imposed a Gay Tax , it is no more against the state (even federal law) than a Gun Tax. Just because you hate something doesn't mean you have the right to make it illegal. It goes both way.
And, back to the point, the city of Seattle will not only not gain any money by this gun tax, they will lose money. In fact, the city of Seattle and King County has its own taxes well above the state minimum sales tax and it pockets the extra revenue. The tax the city of Seattle imposed is so high, it essentially makes it impossible for your average , middle-class gun owner to afford to shoot. Taxing ammo 0.20 a round means that nobody will be able to afford to shoot their guns. It was a sneaky and devious measure passed by the city as a way to make it so that people in Seattle will not be able to shoot for hobby anymore. It does not to prevent robberies, murders, gun violence, it just makes it harder for legal gun owners to shoot their guns, which is the point. The guns and ammo in Washington state are already heavily taxed with the Sales/Use Tax, any additional tax makes the price outrageous and, of course, no gun/ammo businesses will operate within Seattle which only loses the city money overall! Duh!!!
And, if you want to look at it from a financial perspective, a gun that sells for $2000 in Seattle will generate the city a considerable amount of revenue with the 9.5% sales tax, as well the businesses that support the city by operating their businesses. However, by them taxing the guns, everyone will go to other cities to buy their guns and ammo. This will only result in a loss of revenue for the city.
This whole measure has nothing to do with gaining revenue , it is ludicrous to even think that. The city failed in the past to outright ban guns, so now there next step to trample on the rights of Washington residents is to make guns so expensive that nobody, except criminals and the extremely wealthy, will be able to afford to own and shoot them.
I was trying to reason with some of the liberal-minded people here who would scream murder if the city imposed a law they would disagree with. However, people here agree the city has the right to break Washington state law, as long as the law they break agrees with their personal beliefs. Sadly, when you give people in a position of authority the right to break the law, they will sooner or later break laws that you don't agree with!
If I was to break a law, for example I run a red light or go and steal from a store, should I not get punished for breaking Washington state law? So, if your answer is yes, why should the city of Seattle not be punished for also breaking the law? Breaking the law is illegal and telling our police or government agents to enforce illegal laws is also illegal. Laws are in their place for a reason, even if we don't always agree with them!
Last edited by RotseCherut; 08-27-2015 at 04:33 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
