Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-23-2018, 07:32 AM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,858,535 times
Reputation: 9283

Advertisements

I thought everyone getting an "A" for effort trend was going to make things better... I still remember an article a few years that was celebrated by the liberals... a kid had the CORRECT answer and LOST points... a kid who had the WRONG answer and did not lose ANY points... it was a new earth-breaking learning that the liberals had invented, the whole point was getting CLOSE to the answer but NOT the correct answer... Ever since then, I knew liberal education was to make people more like dumb sheep...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-23-2018, 07:37 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by swilliamsny View Post
Common Core, Race to the Top, No Child Left Behind... all of these have been detrimental. It's understandable that we want all kids to learn, but what these initiatives have done is to ignore our brightest students in an effort to include everyone. We have way more programs designed for the lowest achievers than we do for those who are accelerated.

We're in NJ for school; one of the highest ranked states for education. My youngest is in the inclusion classroom. He has a genius-level IQ, but gets placed with the kids needing the most help because he is quiet and kind and can work independently. We just had our parent-teacher conference. His teacher said, "I'm concerned that he wouldn't ask for help if he needed it." I almost fell off my chair. How about asking, "How can we challenge your child so that he might find something difficult enough that he needs to ask for help"? How about creating a class where the brightest kids are allowed to advance beyond what the inclusion class is limited to? His 'gifted' class meets for an hour every six days. Yeah, that'll really help.

At least in the higher grades they'll pull kids out into separate level classes. It's great for everyone. My middle child has problems with processing in math. He's in a remedial class. He learns more, and more easily, when the teacher is able to work with this group of kids who are all at a similar level. He would be lost in a higher level class that proceeds at a faster pace, and would hold back the kids who are great at math.

We need to ditch this idea that all kids are, or can be, equal learners.
Exactly! And the research info I posted regarding "The Incubus of the Sixties" determined the exact same thing when analyzing the achievement test scores of students in mixed-ability classes (pulled scores drastically lower) and ability-grouped classes (scores remained high).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2018, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,615,406 times
Reputation: 29385
I think because many schools are faced with students who still don't speak the language, resources are being put toward them and what's being cut is the acceleration of learning among the kids who would have once excelled in class and on standardized tests.

People boast that by a certain year whites will be in the minority. They better get the rest of these people up to speed because we'll either turn into a third-world cesspool at that point or the Asians will own and run everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2018, 07:38 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
16,911 posts, read 10,594,283 times
Reputation: 16439
On a somewhat related note, the stupidity spewed by the “media” doesn’t help. I just read an article on the lottery claiming that you should put “statistics on your side” by playing numbers that have won in past.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2018, 07:42 AM
 
23,976 posts, read 15,086,618 times
Reputation: 12952
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
On a somewhat related note, the stupidity spewed by the “media” doesn’t help. I just read an article on the lottery claiming that you should put “statistics on your side” by playing numbers that have won in past.
Who are 'the Media'?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2018, 07:43 AM
 
23,976 posts, read 15,086,618 times
Reputation: 12952
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
some states require all students to take the act.

Some states require all students to take the sat.

A few states require all students to take one or another.

Some of those states posted relatively dismal educational outcomes before subjecting all students to act / sat testing.

When states mandate testing , they know the state- wide scores will decline.

Why did this article ( published by very right leaning, pajama media) choose to slam common core instead of talking about states increasingly mandating testing and the impact on scores?
this^^^^^^^^
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2018, 07:44 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,018,755 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
https://pjmedia.com/trending/thanks-...st-in-decades/

Why are students doing worse on the ACT?
More kids taking them?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2018, 07:47 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,018,755 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Some states require all students to take the ACT.

Some states require all students to take the SAT.

A few states require all students to take one or another.

Some of those states posted relatively dismal educational outcomes before subjecting all students to ACT / SAT testing.

When states mandate testing , they know the state- wide scores will decline.

Why did this article ( published by very right leaning, Pajama Media) choose to slam Common Core instead of talking about states increasingly mandating testing and the impact on scores?
yup mandating testing.

I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing -- even if it has a negative impact on the average overall scores......

My son went to a high school where some 90% of the kids took the SAT's. That mean compared to the other high school near buy that only had a 75% effort , had a higher SAT average.

That's not meaning the school with the lower average is not a better school.

Stats provide some good information -- but not in a vacuum. Know the information around the collection of the data and analyze -- just not accept numbers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2018, 07:48 AM
 
13,961 posts, read 5,628,343 times
Reputation: 8617
I have tutored the ACT and SAT for close to 15 years now, and my students have ranged between below average to near perfect, and I can tell you flat out why the scores are falling - the ACT/SAT are general knowledge tests that are timed. The curriculum standards of many school systems simply does not prepare students for such a test.

Using the ACT, since I tutor that one most often, the two lowest scores tend to be Math and Reading. The reading test is simple enough...students are not required to read as much as years past. Minus the tried and true test taking strategies that can help anyone get a couple more points here and there, there's no way to tutor reading except telling students to read more books...lots more. School may not require it, but standardized, timed exams might.

Math is where you see the most dramatic curriculum and teaching methodology issues. Most math teaching in the last 20 years has become computer/calculator dependent along new age lines of "this is how everyone does everything blah blah" nonsense. That, and what a student is required to take vary wildly across school systems. On the former point, the ACT/SAT tend towards being "calculator proof" with a ton of algebraic computations that don't require calculator skills but do require knowledge of time proven problem solving techniques. On the latter point, anywhere from 20-40% of the test involves Trig to some degree, but I'd say 2/3 of the kids I have tutored never took trig. So they hit that test totally ignorant of the math involved. But honestly, basic algebraic computation methods are lacking across the board, under the banner of "nobody does it that way anymore."

Those tests are all about academic RIGOR, and our national teaching/learning culture is not. Expect the numbers to keep declining, unless the ETS folks who make those tests start dumbing them down further than they already have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2018, 07:48 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,018,755 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
I thought everyone getting an "A" for effort trend was going to make things better... I still remember an article a few years that was celebrated by the liberals... a kid had the CORRECT answer and LOST points... a kid who had the WRONG answer and did not lose ANY points... it was a new earth-breaking learning that the liberals had invented, the whole point was getting CLOSE to the answer but NOT the correct answer... Ever since then, I knew liberal education was to make people more like dumb sheep...
I don't ever remember hearing that kind of stuff.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:41 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top