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The answer lies in your own words. Almost a million have self deported. You remove incentives and make life so hard for an illegal that 5 million more make the same choice.
If they burn LA down in riots (disregarding that the Texan in me would want to give them a reward) then that solidifies that these thugs need to go and justifies stronger measures.
When we get down to the point of diminishing returns then we can consider amnesty for the final couple of million. Note, if they have "resources" then they aren't as much of a burden.
No incentives were removed in that time frame. They left because of the vastly improved situation in Mexico. If you want to use that technique all you need do is fix Central America. Should not run past a few hundred billion. Still likely though we would end up with 10 million or more left.
And there is no significant possibility of removing incentives except in a comprehensive immigration package.
I remain very skeptical that works. Even if you block legal employment you will simply send most to the black market.
And TX would burn as well. Get 30% of the population annoyed to the point of doing something about it and you have a real problem. Less than 10% of the Hispanic population are illegal but they will close ranks in the poorer areas if one attempts any thing resembling a mass deportation. And practically there is no other way you will ever get them out.
Any attempt to drive any large number of the illegals out will turn into a disaster. Go to the Midwest and drive all the guys working in the dairy industry out. Pretty simple and easy to locate. But then the cost of dairy goes up 50 billion or so. See how well that sits with the general public.
How is this a good reason to block local LE from contacting ICE, pretty absurd.
But I never said that anyone should block local LE from contacting ICE, after you yammering on about it and asking me if I believe that local LE should be blocked from contacting ICE I said:
Quote:
"The question is too flawed to answer, it's what is known as a loaded question like 'when did you stop beating your wife' and I'm not going to play so please stop asking."
And I stand by that response, it's too complex and nuanced an issue to give you a simple yes or no answer. Here are some of the issues involved:
2018 – In Gonzalez v. ICE, 7 plaintiffs brought a class action against ICE for violating the Fourth Amendment and federal statutory law in its issuance of detainer requests. The Central District of California ruled that the knowledge of a person’s foreign birth plus the fact that there are no records of them in federal immigration databases is not sufficient to establish probable cause of removability. Therefore, the court found that issuing a detainer based on such facts alone violates the Fourth Amendment.
2017 - In Lunn v. Commonwealth, Lunn was detained based solely on an ICE detainer after his criminal charges were dismissed. The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court held that neither federal law or Massachusetts law granted Massachusetts officers the authority to arrest individuals based solely on ICE detainers that alleged civil immigration violations. In reaching its decision, the court rejected the government’s argument that state and local officers have an inherent authority outside of Massachusetts state law to make federal civil immigration arrests. https://www.ilrc.org/immigration-det...date-july-2018
November 2018 - An appellate court in Brooklyn ruled Wednesday that local police officers in New York state can't hold immigrants in custody beyond their release date solely to turn them over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement without a judicial warrant.
Those are just a few, you can find others if you look. My point was to illustrate to you that you can't issue a blanket statement as to whether it is proper for local officials to prevent local LE from cooperating with ICE or issuing detainers, apparently even the Feds have problem with doing so at times. The detainers have been found unconstitutional dozens of times and in some cases jurisdictions that allowed LE to cooperate with ICE were found liable for money damages.
I think if ICE wants the cooperation and assistance of local law enforcement they need to make sure that the detainers are constitutional or have the detainers signed by a judge.
Propaganda article that never defines "many" or gives even an approximate number. I know a lot of ex-pats and not one is "illegal" although some are in violation of their TIP (Temporary Import Permit) for their U.S.-plated cars which is limited to 180 days per calendar year. Out of a million, I have no doubt that some, as in maybe a few thousand, have overstayed their visa. But it isn't remotely analagous to living illegal in America.
I gave two documentations ... there I fetched the second one for you. btw, you do know how to use google translate, yes? America’s Renegade Retirees
"South of the border, it’s relatively easy for U.S. citizens to live without legal documentation."
________________
This door does swing both ways. Assuming it doesn't is, well ... that which assumption is most known as ...
I gave two documentations ... there I fetched the second one for you. btw, you do know how to use google translate, yes? America’s Renegade Retirees
"South of the border, it’s relatively easy for U.S. citizens to live without legal documentation." ...
And once again, no numbers. Very few if any ex-pats are living in Mexico without documentation.
And once again, no numbers. Very few if any ex-pats are living in Mexico without documentation.
do I need to get that info for you? i can ya know. let me know as i can help with that.
PS: I could stand it, so here it is ... 91.2 percent. Click on that number in the article and it takes you to another publication that says ... 37.8% increase since 2015 and their accounting comes from ... "Mexico's National Institute of Statistics and Geography"
but honestly, people don't want to know that ... they want to keep the thinking that America is all that and America stopped being all that decades ago. Reality of it though is tough for some to let sink in.
People leave the u.s.; that's what they do and they leave many times the same way many move into the u.s. Anyway they can.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 11-26-2018 at 10:25 PM..
But I never said that anyone should block local LE from contacting ICE, after you yammering on about it and asking me if I believe that local LE should be blocked from contacting ICE I said:
And I stand by that response, it's too complex and nuanced an issue to give you a simple yes or no answer. Here are some of the issues involved:
2018 – In Gonzalez v. ICE, 7 plaintiffs brought a class action against ICE for violating the Fourth Amendment and federal statutory law in its issuance of detainer requests. The Central District of California ruled that the knowledge of a person’s foreign birth plus the fact that there are no records of them in federal immigration databases is not sufficient to establish probable cause of removability. Therefore, the court found that issuing a detainer based on such facts alone violates the Fourth Amendment.
2017 - In Lunn v. Commonwealth, Lunn was detained based solely on an ICE detainer after his criminal charges were dismissed. The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court held that neither federal law or Massachusetts law granted Massachusetts officers the authority to arrest individuals based solely on ICE detainers that alleged civil immigration violations. In reaching its decision, the court rejected the government’s argument that state and local officers have an inherent authority outside of Massachusetts state law to make federal civil immigration arrests. https://www.ilrc.org/immigration-det...date-july-2018
November 2018 - An appellate court in Brooklyn ruled Wednesday that local police officers in New York state can't hold immigrants in custody beyond their release date solely to turn them over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement without a judicial warrant.
Those are just a few, you can find others if you look. My point was to illustrate to you that you can't issue a blanket statement as to whether it is proper for local officials to prevent local LE from cooperating with ICE or issuing detainers, apparently even the Feds have problem with doing so at times. The detainers have been found unconstitutional dozens of times and in some cases jurisdictions that allowed LE to cooperate with ICE were found liable for money damages.
I think if ICE wants the cooperation and assistance of local law enforcement they need to make sure that the detainers are constitutional or have the detainers signed by a judge.
The answer is no, we shouldn't intentionally put up barriers between agencies to protect illegals because of some lawsuits from some errors. You can find nuances and law suits in pretty much every aspect of life or law. Detainers aren't the only way ICE cooperates with local LE.
No incentives were removed in that time frame. They left because of the vastly improved situation in Mexico. If you want to use that technique all you need do is fix Central America. Should not run past a few hundred billion. Still likely though we would end up with 10 million or more left.
And there is no significant possibility of removing incentives except in a comprehensive immigration package.
I remain very skeptical that works. Even if you block legal employment you will simply send most to the black market.
And TX would burn as well. Get 30% of the population annoyed to the point of doing something about it and you have a real problem. Less than 10% of the Hispanic population are illegal but they will close ranks in the poorer areas if one attempts any thing resembling a mass deportation. And practically there is no other way you will ever get them out.
Any attempt to drive any large number of the illegals out will turn into a disaster. Go to the Midwest and drive all the guys working in the dairy industry out. Pretty simple and easy to locate. But then the cost of dairy goes up 50 billion or so. See how well that sits with the general public.
You don't want to get rid of illegal aliens because you have a hunch it won't work and you care about Big Dairyâ„¢, lol, sorry that dog don't hunt. Illegal immigration population won't be reduced fast enough to have a significant impact.
do I need to get that info for you? i can ya know. let me know as i can help with that.
PS: I could stand it, so here it is ... 91.2 percent. Click on that number in the article and it takes you to another publication that says ... 37.8% increase since 2015 and their accounting comes from ... "Mexico's National Institute of Statistics and Geography"
but honestly, people don't want to know that ... they want to keep the thinking that America is all that and America stopped being all that decades ago. Reality of it though is tough for some to let sink in.
People leave the u.s.; that's what they do and they leave many times the same way many move into the u.s. Anyway they can.
Number one, I am guessing Americans living in Mexico illegally are not on welfare, are not MS13 gang members, do not commit crime while in Mexico, and raise Mexican society up from its dismal native state. And I bet they have taken the trouble to learn Spanish, unlike the invaders who come here and expect the government and society to learn their language.
Nevertheless, regardless of this situation, we should still insist on a tightly controlled border and a merit-based immigration system where applicants for citizenship speak English, have money and a good job already lined up, swear loyalty to our society, including our core values of freedom, Capitalism, and private property rights. Plus they should agree to waive access to all social programs for a minimum of 10 years.
What Mexico does with our illegals is their business.
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