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When the rich and powerful is constantly being replaced by the poor, there’s no system rigged against anybody.
The only rigged system in US is government regulations.
Once again, currency, backed by goods and services, is just a medium for trade. There are hundreds of different currencies being used for trade and we still barter all the time.
Constantly being replaced by the poor isn’t true being as the wealthy in most cases control who can and cannot become rich. Either way even if we had a rotational system where different people get to rule after a period of time the dynamic of money allowing freedom will keep everyone in mutual slavery.
As for currency, again this is a simplistic understanding of the situation. Currency in capitalism is used as an investment tool to store value in goods and to create market value that is profited on.
Yes currency was created to represent trade, but that was a long time ago and that’s not how currency functions in modern industrial capitalism.
On the bold, I don't have a noble cause. You all do. I can admit that I can be condescending as well - but in this case, I answered the question posed. Your choosing to ignore what I stated about you ignoring the anthropological history of humanity, I could easily view as equally condescending (see how that works - where people have different POVs...) I'll also note that even though I "can be" a nice/decent person, I don't think I am 100%, which was the point of my post. Neither are you and neither are any other people.
The bold is your naivete about human nature/human experience. You ignore the fact that humans are conflict driven, we never agree, we are selfish, and we will do what we feel is our "right" no matter what you or others feel is your "right."
We can procure a valid/noble reason/excuse for our violence. And you and other Libertarians ignore this. It would be funny to me because it seems to me that Libertarians do like to seem like they are nice/decent, and IMO they would be the worse off in a society that you imagine because you fail to realize the rest of us will F you up and take you sh** and not GAF about you because that is how we humans roll. Personally, I'm an individual (and I know MANY individuals like myself) who are not ones for debate and agreements/contracts and a whole lot of BS in our day to day lives. I like to get sh** done. Today, I get things done within the confines of the law and/or policy and sometimes, if no one will notice or care, outside of those confines. Without any confines or even a specific definition of a law or policy or any sort of guidance, I'm just going to do what I want because I'm that sort of person. I am not unique in this mindset. I just am more open to being honest about myself. I will get the upper hand and I will do what I want unless someone of equal mental and physical or technological strength can stop me and this would especially be the case without any sort of guidance. I'll also admit that I am a biased person, mostly on the mental capacities/cognitive abilities of individuals I meet. If I don't think someone is what I call "too bright" even today, I will not engage much or at all with that person. Without any guidance or policy on me interacting with these sorts of people, if they had something I wanted, I'd just take it from them because they aren't too bright and I wouldn't want to deal with any sort of individual diplomacy with basically an idiot.
Humans by nature are not "decent." We are humans and we have good and bad qualities and our bad qualities, we often ignore or don't speak about or rationalize to be "good" in our minds. I choose to recognize that humans are humans and can't and wouldn't be able to be in a Libertarian society for too long because I'm bright enough to recognize that is not how people "people."
Let me say this again. Plenty of people seek to enslave others. Libertarians are advocating non-aggression but you argue that’s against human nature. That’s true. Virtually everything we do today is against human nature. We recognize that slavery is a bad thing for us and we abandoned it a long time ago but it’s still deep inside many of you.
Once again, non-aggression is the basic human decency which plenty of you are lack of.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324
One problem I have with is choice.
The presence of choice while not external force, can be a negation if free will.
Capitalism promotes more consumer choice, by providing an excess of goods and options for consumers to choose from. This presence and environment can take someone who has no desire for more and put them in a situation where they consume beyond their wants and motivation to produce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324
and that’s the problem. If freedom is granted by wealth, it makes people a slave to money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
I think therefore I am ... Moody Blues, Lovely To See You (my bold for emphasis follows)
I think, I think I am, therefore I am, I think.
Quote:
[Establishment:] Of course you are my bright little star,
I've miles
And miles
Of files
Pretty files of your forefather's fruit
And now to suit our
Great computer, You're magnetic ink.
I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.
[Inner Man:] There you go man, keep as cool as you can.
Face piles
And piles
Of trials
With smiles. It riles them to believe
That you perceive
The web they weave And keep on thinking free.
Ownership? The first determination in all of this is, do we own ourselves?
When you showed me Bakunin ("facts are before ideas") meaning, people can not think for themselves, my first thought was, we may as well stick with the R & D teams we have.
2008 housing (every body should own a home, GWB) bubble, deregulation of banks, created the scenario you describe. Banks lent money to low credit applicants; then the foreclosures came. We can blame the people for not using better judgment. Or we can blame the banks, that even though they were 'freer' to lend, they could have put themselves on proper restraints.
If we own ourselves we own everything we do. (know thyself) If we do not own ourselves ... then
Then it is a good thing a person's freedom is not determined by wealth. I could also argue that freedom is an illusion created by man ... which do you like best?
All of this back and forth in debate implies there are choices ...
Currency is just a mode in which goods can be valued numerically and have a market distribution and universal investment quality.
Trading doesn’t have this, that is why trading is not capitalism. Yes you can have currency while not having capitalism, but you can’t have capitalism without currency.
Whatchootalkinabout Winterfall?
Currency is a concept, even with barter, both parties have a perception of value, my 5 skins are worth more than a flint spearhead. Currency (the concept) is just formalized so both parties can simplify negotiation, the knapper has a shingle with values so we can save time, he wants 6 skins for a spearhead, so he gets no skins from me and I don't get a spearhead.
You cannot eliminate currency, the idea is ubiquitous, you cannot erase peoples memories to eliminate that concept.
Currency is a concept, even with barter, both parties have a perception of value, my 5 skins are worth more than a flint spearhead. Currency (the concept) is just formalized so both parties can simplify negotiation, the knapper has a shingle with values so we can save time, he wants 6 skins for a spearhead, so he gets no skins from me and I don't get a spearhead.
You cannot eliminate currency, the idea is ubiquitous, you cannot erase peoples memories to eliminate that concept.
Theoretically we could eliminate currency.......in reality we could not. We are not going backwards whether or not some believe it would be a good thing, even if it would be.
Theoretically we could eliminate currency.......in reality we could not. We are not going backwards whether or not some believe it would be a good thing, even if it would be.
Eliminating forced currency at gunpoint would be a step forward. Huge step.
Currency is a concept, even with barter, both parties have a perception of value, my 5 skins are worth more than a flint spearhead. Currency (the concept) is just formalized so both parties can simplify negotiation, the knapper has a shingle with values so we can save time, he wants 6 skins for a spearhead, so he gets no skins from me and I don't get a spearhead.
You cannot eliminate currency, the idea is ubiquitous, you cannot erase peoples memories to eliminate that concept.
Nonsense.
Universal pricing has nothing to do with trade and bartering. Trading a spear for a cow proves no numerical value as those two things have different values for the people using them, and represent different functions.
Pricing has no affect on function, as is The basis of trade. Yes currency was used to represent trade in a limited environment, but that is not what free market capitalism used currency for.
Free Markets: an economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses.
Goods like tomatoes can’t be used as currency as it’s Function conflicts relatively with what it’s being compared to.
Universal pricing has nothing to do with trade and bartering. Trading a spear for a cow proves no numerical value as those two things have different values for the people using them, and represent different functions.
Pricing has no affect on function, as is The basis of trade. Yes currency was used to represent trade in a limited environment, but that is not what free market capitalism used currency for.
Free Markets: an economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses.
Goods like tomatoes can’t be used as currency as it’s Function conflicts relatively with what it’s being compared to.
Capitalism is not a free system, it’s a heavily structured one.
Please look at the facts, not just the propaganda terms.
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