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Old 01-23-2019, 04:34 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,147,567 times
Reputation: 8224

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There's the basic sensible point that women should be allowed to make their own decisions about their body. There's the basic sensible point that many people who are anti-abortion are also anti-contraception, and don't want women to even control their own sexuality.

But the most basic thing that anti-abortion people don't seem to grasp is this: If you allow a government to rule what happens to your body, it can go both ways. In other words, a government that has permission to forbid you to have an abortion, can also require you to have an abortion (as with China). One of the oddest things, for me, about Republicans is that they object to government interference with corporate greed, but they're fine with government interference with an individual's more personal decisions.
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Old 01-23-2019, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,386,069 times
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You're making a sound argument...unfortunately as a liberal statist you won't apply it consistently across the board.

That's the difference between being a person of principles as opposed to being a Team Red/Team Blue pawn.
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Old 01-23-2019, 04:51 PM
 
4,985 posts, read 3,971,944 times
Reputation: 10147
yes.
this does not belong on City-Data.
it is too evenhanded and logical.
we are not used to that.
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Old 01-23-2019, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,201 posts, read 19,231,792 times
Reputation: 38267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
There's the basic sensible point that women should be allowed to make their own decisions about their body. There's the basic sensible point that many people who are anti-abortion are also anti-contraception, and don't want women to even control their own sexuality.

But the most basic thing that anti-abortion people don't seem to grasp is this: If you allow a government to rule what happens to your body, it can go both ways. In other words, a government that has permission to forbid you to have an abortion, can also require you to have an abortion (as with China). One of the oddest things, for me, about Republicans is that they object to government interference with corporate greed, but they're fine with government interference with an individual's more personal decisions.
not with an individual, "just" with a woman's body. As the saying goes "If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."
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Old 01-23-2019, 04:58 PM
 
Location: In your head, rent free
14,888 posts, read 10,045,915 times
Reputation: 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
There's the basic sensible point that women should be allowed to make their own decisions about their body. There's the basic sensible point that many people who are anti-abortion are also anti-contraception, and don't want women to even control their own sexuality.
There is also a basic sensible point that no human should be allowed to harm another human, especially one that is defenseless. You can claim that an unborn child isn't a person until you turn blue in the face but that is just something we will have to disagree with. I don't know anyone who is anti-contraception but I don't believe anyone should be forced to fund contraception for someone else either. Wanting to protect the life of an unborn child isn't preventing a woman from controlling her own sexuality, it's just basic human decency.
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:03 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,503,493 times
Reputation: 2964
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
You're making a sound argument...unfortunately as a liberal statist you won't apply it consistently across the board.

That's the difference between being a person of principles as opposed to being a Team Red/Team Blue pawn.
But. But. Think of the ChildrunzTM!

(Is that how that argument goes?)


Nobody is coming to take your abortion... we're just looking to pass some Common SenseTM Abortion control. After all. It's for the children.

Nobody needs high capacity assault coat hangers that will scramble a fetus innards...

Universal Background ChecksTM will help keep these tragedies from ocurring...

Is that how it works?

I couldn't be a liberal if I wanted... I couldn't even keep a straight face while typing it...
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:06 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,147,567 times
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Originally Posted by turkeydance View Post
yes.
this does not belong on City-Data.
it is too evenhanded and logical.
we are not used to that.


LOL! Thanks.
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:10 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,147,567 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
There is also a basic sensible point that no human should be allowed to harm another human, especially one that is defenseless. You can claim that an unborn child isn't a person until you turn blue in the face but that is just something we will have to disagree with. I don't know anyone who is anti-contraception but I don't believe anyone should be forced to fund contraception for someone else either. Wanting to protect the life of an unborn child isn't preventing a woman from controlling her own sexuality, it's just basic human decency.

We can disagree, but I hope you might also acknowledge that it's a matter of opinion. Most people would not consider a tiny embryo who can't survive on it's own as a "person." If you think it's immoral to have an abortion, NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO HAVE AN ABORTION.

By the way, did you know that abortion was totally legal in earlier days, and supposedly it only became illegal because professional doctors were trying to take over the market from midwives?
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:18 PM
 
5,051 posts, read 3,584,419 times
Reputation: 6512
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
There is also a basic sensible point that no human should be allowed to harm another human, especially one that is defenseless. You can claim that an unborn child isn't a person until you turn blue in the face but that is just something we will have to disagree with. I don't know anyone who is anti-contraception but I don't believe anyone should be forced to fund contraception for someone else either. Wanting to protect the life of an unborn child isn't preventing a woman from controlling her own sexuality, it's just basic human decency.

The whole Catholic Church is anti-contraception.

Fully understand that people with polar beliefs will never agree on this issue however forcing a woman to have a baby she doesn't want is denying her (all women) a basic right to controlling her life. The vocal men should not have a say on this issue given the condition will never happen to them.
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:19 PM
 
Location: In your head, rent free
14,888 posts, read 10,045,915 times
Reputation: 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
We can disagree, but I hope you might also acknowledge that it's a matter of opinion. Most people would not consider a tiny embryo who can't survive on it's own as a "person." If you think it's immoral to have an abortion, NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO HAVE AN ABORTION.

By the way, did you know that abortion was totally legal in earlier days, and supposedly it only became illegal because professional doctors were trying to take over the market from midwives?
This isn't about my right to have an abortion, this is about protecting what I believe is a viable human life and yes it's based on opinion mixed in with some simple facts. I never claimed anyone was trying to force me to have an abortion, that's a stupid premise and isn't what we're talking about.

By the way, did you know that slavery, witch hunting and dumping nuclear waste in the ocean were all totally legal in earlier days too?
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