A Question for Americans(re: liberatarianism) (interstate, generations, legal, radical)

[rishi85]

Hello,

I am from India. I enjoy reading about American history- especially on American Presidents, and my interest in American politics is also increasing on a daily basis. My question is this: Why isn't the liberatarian party popular?

If I were a citizen I'd be a liberartarian. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative, wanting the Government out of international affairs(anti-interventionism), with a minimal intrusion to the citizen's rights locally. My hero Clint Eastwood is also a liberetarian.

A guy on reddit wrote back when I asked a similar question there. This is his response, You agree?

libertarianism is a complete and total ****ing joke. It's a radical and dishonest attempt at creating another landed gentry by having no societal pushback on the self perpetuation of capital. People don't like that because it's awful.

...if that's your take I'm very curious which presidential biographies you're reading and who wrote them.

Edit: to expand on this, libertarianism is dishonest because it claims to harken back to a past that 1) never ever existed in the way they like to glorify and 2) was, upon anything resembling a close inspection, much much much much worse for most people and was chock full of horrible, systemic inequities that were all backed by the power of the government at pretty much every level.

In addition, the people libertarians tend to admire in American history often used their power and influence (often gained simply through the inheritance of family wealth or created by a reliance on enslaved labor) in very hypocritical and often authoritarian ways.

This is of course ignoring the fact that it also just doesn't work. Look at Kansas and Oklahoma and tell me how their libertarian, ultra-low-taxes-to-promote-growth schemes worked out.

It's all complete and total bunk pushed by dip****s who love guns and think markets are actually good things instead of instruments to grind working people into dust. The myth of the libertarian, self-reliant American is mostly a total fabrication. libertarians want everything to stay the same including social and economic equality. Notice you never see too many people who are libertarians beside upper middle class white men. Its because they have what they want (economic and social status) and don't want to give any to anyone else. Women's rights? No thanks. Fixing centuries of racial inequality? **** em.

I've noticed most people who say they are libertarian are just republicans who like weed. Ask them about trade, abortion, borders, military and they'll give you the basic GOP talking points.

[dynamicjson]

namaste. if you want to understand american politics from india, the best you can possibly do is to watch lawrence lessig talk about "rebooting democracy" at dartmouth. easy to find on youtube. the 15 minute intro, skip it to lessig talking-- the q&a afterward, its alright, its not essential.

that takes the 2 hours down to 45 minutes.

watch that video and youll understand the american "2-party system" more than most americans do. lessig ran for president in 2016. he didnt have a chance of winning, and winning isnt why he ran.

[rishi85]

Originally Posted by dynamicjson

namaste. if you want to understand american politics from india, the best you can possibly do is to watch lawrence lessig talk about "rebooting democracy" at dartmouth. easy to find on youtube. the 15 minute intro, skip it to lessig talking-- the q&a afterward, its alright, its not essential.

that takes the 2 hours down to 45 minutes.

watch that video and youll understand the american "2-party system" more than most americans do. lessig ran for president in 2016. he didnt have a chance of winning, and winning isnt why he ran.

Wow, thank you for the heads up there. That's a tall claim that I'll understand American politics just by seeing that video. But I will. Thanks

[Oldhag1]

I am a Libertarian, I am not a white male. I wanted limited government, especially at the federal level. The thing I want most right now is for us to stop being the world’s policeman and Sugar Daddy wrapped up in one.

As a libertarian, I think the government needs to get out of the business of regulating competent adults’ lives. Which means I support:

• The government needs to be out the marriage business other than allowing any two adults to legally form an equal partnership to operate as a single unit that functions as the head of a family, with or without other dependents (also known as children or incompetent adults) - regardless of the gender or prior relationship of those two adults.
• I think the government needs to be out of the bedroom of competent, consenting adults.
• I think the government needs to allow privately held business to decide on how they operate as long as they pay their bills (including taxes), do not endanger others (including employees), and do not create a community nuisance.
• I think the local government should provide basic services of mutual benfit to the community such police, fire, schools, and basic communicable disease prevention (such as vaccines).
• The local government does need to provide SOME oversight of protected, vulnerable populations, such as children.
• I think the federal government needs to stop infringing on functions that, per the constitution, belong to the states (including education).
• I think the federal government does need to continue to oversee the national interstate transportation routes, maintain a common currency, provide for the national defense, including maintaining a standing military, and continue to serve as an arbitrator for commerce conflicts between states.

Notice none of that is anti-woman or anti-minorities. It is pro-indivual autonomy and states’ rights - which is what Libertarians are supposed to be.

[Volobjectitarian]

I am an anarchist and former libertarian, and here's my take after 30+ years of being mocked, berated and ridiculed for holding firm to the "minimal/no government" way of thinking:

1) All governments evolve towards tyranny because all cultures evolve towards "death by apathy." By that I mean, as generations get further removed from the struggle for individual freedom and liberty, they get more and more apathetic about protecting/defending/securing freedom and liberty, figuring everything was cool when they were born and will it always be cool, even if we hand over a few more freedoms and liberties to the central government.

Over time, government does more and more and people forget the time when government didn't do those things. In Rothbard's "Libertarian Manifesto", he describes this using shoes as an example. Right now, we all (most of us) buy our own shoes and there are all sorts of places to do that, and nobody thinks much of it. Brick and mortar, online, etc. We all know how to get shoes. Now let the government start as they always do, selecting a portion of the population and providing their shoes for them. Over time, more ad more people will demand free shoes as well. Eventually, all shoes are provided by the government. Within a few years after that, people will not be able to recall a time when individuals provided their own shoes and will be absolutely convinced that only government can possibly provide something as necessary and voluminous as shoes for each citizen. No possible way the private sector and free market could do such a thing.

That thinking applies to a ton of areas in peoples' lives right now, and they simply cannot envision government being smaller or nonexistent. It is literally in the realm of the impossible for them, beyond their ability to comprehend, and that is where libertarian/anarchist thinking sets up shop. For more on this, browse any past threads on this or any forum in existence, searching for the words "libertarian" or "anarchist" and you will see the vast majority defending government exactly as I describe, by roughly 20-50:1 margins against us small/no government folks.

2) The Democrats and Republicans want to keep a two party lock on power, and the majority of the population agrees, so they do. Libertarians are lumped in with every other not-Dem/not-Pub party, marginalized and effectively locked out of the game.

3) The vast majority of people get the definition of libertarian or anarchist from media, and about 99% of media has either no idea what either word means or they invent definitions that scare people right back to the Democrats and Republicans.

4) Libertarians/anarchists are not part of the accepted cultural narrative. This is a high brow way of saying we are the dorky kids in school that everybody picks on and ridicules. Ideologies and belief systems of pure individualism are like that by definition. And people like moving in herds instead of alone. Individualism scares most people, plain and simple.

[ottomobeale]

Few people are willing to go real full libertarian.
People are conservatives when talking about government benefits to others.
People are the opposite when talking about government benefits they receive.

See Kansas farmers who hate welfare except farm programs.
WV people who hate welfare on disability whose only disability is being 100 miles from a major city and 100 pounds overweight.
Old people railing against government health insurance being bad for others who are on government health insurance.

etc etc etc.

[Joey2k]

I am a libertarian for one reason. No one has the legitimate moral authority to command anyone else or force them to do something they don't want to do. I don't care if someone has a badge or ID card that says they are from the government, or if you and a bunch of your friends voted on it, no person, no hundred/thousand/million people have any legitimate claim of authority over me or anyone other than themselves.

I believe the maximum role and first duty of government is to protect the life, liberty, and property of its citizens. I feel government today has perversely become the greatest source of the deprivation of those rights.

To those who say it doesn't work, I say to things:

1) You are confusing "doesn't work" with "doesn't do what I want it to do"

2) I care more about what is right than about what "works"

[Submariner]

I am fairly active with the Libertarian Party in my state.

My wife ran for office in our state legislature last summer.

I attend a lot of their meetings, we do fund-raisers for our schools, during the Federal shutdown we went to a national park and picked up trash.

[Frank DeForrest]

Libertarianism is non-aggression and private property and thats it, so back to school o.p.

[rishi85]

Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest

Libertarianism is non-aggression and private property and thats it, so back to school o.p.

What the **** are you talking aboutt?