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View Poll Results: Do you consider healthcare as a right for every citizen a far left position?
Yes, this is far left and extremism 114 42.07%
No, healthcare should be a right, not a privilege 157 57.93%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-10-2019, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,202 posts, read 13,489,086 times
Reputation: 19543

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Which facts are those?

Cancer survival rates in the US are superior to every single country, bar none.

The 5-year survival rate for the 4 most common cancers is appalling in Britain. Compare:

Breast Cancer: UK 69.7% while US leads the World at 83.9% If you're a woman, you want to be in the US, not the UK.

Colorectal Men: UK 42.3% while US leads the World at 59.1%

Colorectal Women: 44.7% while US leads the World at 60.2%

Prostate: UK 51.1% while US leads the World at 91.9% If you're a man, you want to be in the US, not the UK, because your survival chances are 1.7x better than in the UK.

The NHS might be okay for a boil on the bum or bronchitis, but not for serious life-threatening illnesses.


You can read Delay, Dilution and Denial, by the British National Health Service for an expose on that.

And, for the record, those facts come from your own US Centers for Disease Control, the British National Health Service and a British medical journal, Lancet, which is the equivalent to our AMA Journal of Medicine.

You can find those facts in the CONCORD Study.

Explain to us why a woman with breast cancer would ever want to be in Britain with a dismal survival rate?
Cancer survival rates depend on the stage of the cancer and other variables such as a patients age, there is also a tendency in common cancers to over diagnose in the US, and this may be one of the reasons that the US has a higher rate of cancer diagnosis in the first place.

In terms of the NHS, the Royal Marsden in London was the first hospital dedicated to the study and treatment of cancer hospital in the world and the NHS has some very good hospitals, equipment and dedicated staff, and cancer survival rates continue to improve significantly and encouraging people to undergo regular cancer screening is part of the NHS strategy, which will include an extra £20 billion NHS Spending,

Under the plans, the NHS will create a national network of “one stop shops” for cancer checks to drive up detection rates.

GPs will be told to send all patients with possible cancer symptoms to rapid diagnostic centres, which will normally provide a diagnosis within two weeks – and sometimes on the spot.

The new, “scan first” strategy, means that patients will typically get a diagnosis – or all clear – within three weeks of first seeing their family doctor.

A network of at least 20 “rapid diagnostic centres” will begin work over the next two years, with further centres rolled out across the country with a significant increase in MRI Machines, CT Scanners and more early testing.

Our history | The Royal Marsden NHS Foundation Trust

Ten year cancer survival in England & Wales -

Breast Cancer: real figure 78%

Colorectal Cancer is known as Bowel Cancer in the UK: real figure 57%

Prostate: real figure 84%

Cancer survival statistics | Cancer Research UK

'High' survival for many cancers diagnosed at stages 1-3 - BBC News (Jan -2019)

Teenage cancer survival 'on the up' in England, report finds - BBC News (Jan -2019)

NHS England » Cancer screening to be overhauled as part of NHS long term plan to improve care and save lives (Nov -2018)

Prime Minister sets out 5-year NHS funding plan - GOV.UK (June -2018)

Cancer waiting times | Cancer in general | Cancer Research UK

Cancer survival in England - Office for National Statistics


Last edited by Brave New World; 04-10-2019 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,771 posts, read 104,810,535 times
Reputation: 49248
As we all know we can do anything with statistics but that doesn't mean they are accurate. I think I have posted my opinion here more that once but here goes again. We do owe everyone emergency care, but that is all. Yes, there are times when the government should and can step in, but we also have to remember our country was based on you work for what you get. The idea that we all have a right to everything is just plain wrong.
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:51 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,505,679 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
As we all know we can do anything with statistics but that doesn't mean they are accurate. I think I have posted my opinion here more that once but here goes again. We do owe everyone emergency care, but that is all. Yes, there are times when the government should and can step in, but we also have to remember our country was based on you work for what you get. The idea that we all have a right to everything is just plain wrong.
Aside from the fact no one has proposed rights to everything; wrong in who's estimation? The citizen of a country with fewer individual, economic or press freedoms? The only country undergoing a crisis in healthcare delivery with millions un-insured? The only country with millions of it's citizens unable to afford or obtain regular pre-emptive healthcare examinations?

Why would a citizen of such a country have any currency at all to debate "rights" when they willingly acquiesce to having fewer of them?
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:00 PM
 
2,078 posts, read 1,029,790 times
Reputation: 2108
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.R.I.O.N View Post
I am neither far left nor far right but I vote GOP 99% of the time and I think healthcare is a RIGHT that ALL citizens should have. I believe its part of what the governments job is to take care of its citizens.
Then everybody pays the same. No subsidies etc..
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:13 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,888,566 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by MnM258 View Post
So are you saying that if it was put into the US constitution it would become a right? And therefore whether something is a right or not depends on whether it is listed as such in a government document like the US constitution?
If the "right" to health care were added to the US Constitution as an Amendment, it would become a Constitutional Right, like the uninfringeable Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms. Does that mean others can be forced/obligated to pay for it? No. Just like no one is forced to pay for arms owners' guns and ammunition. Do you understand?
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:18 PM
 
7,827 posts, read 3,385,948 times
Reputation: 5141
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
If the "right" to health care were added to the US Constitution as an Amendment, it would become a Constitutional Right, like the uninfringeable Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms. Does that mean others can be forced/obligated to pay for it? No. Just like no one is forced to pay for arms owners' guns and ammunition. Do you understand?
Liberals have always had an issue with Constitutional Rights. They think a Constitutional Right is anything they agree with and anything they don't like, even if it's explicitly enumerated in the actual Constitution, should be banned. This is why people like Ruth Bader Ginsberg, who is a disgrace is a hero to leftists.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:30 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,888,566 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
Liberals have always had an issue with Constitutional Rights. They think a Constitutional Right is anything they agree with and anything they don't like, even if it's explicitly enumerated in the actual Constitution, should be banned. This is why people like Ruth Bader Ginsberg, who is a disgrace is a hero to leftists.
Agree.

The bottom line in why I've compared the proposed/supposed "right" to health care to the actual enumerated Constitutional Rights is to make sure everyone understands that just because people may have a "right" to something does NOT mean others can be obliged/forced to pay for anyone else's access to, invocation, and exercise of such supposed "rights," even when they're Constitutional Rights.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:41 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,888,566 times
Reputation: 13718
Sure, go ahead and make health care a "right." The onus is then on whoever wants to exercise that "right" to pay for that health care themselves just like arms owners pay for their own guns and ammunition.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:51 PM
 
Location: in my imagination
13,608 posts, read 21,405,022 times
Reputation: 10112
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
As long as it’s not at my expense, I don’t care.
I gotta ask if the day ever comes you are overwhelmed with medical bills how will you handle it?
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
1,406 posts, read 802,288 times
Reputation: 3328
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I gotta ask if the day ever comes you are overwhelmed with medical bills how will you handle it?
An irrelevant question. The fact that one person cannot afford something does not mean someone else has an obligation to provide it, no matter how much they might need it.

If you disagree, please explain where that obligation comes from. What circumstances resulted in the player legitimately owing that money to the payee.

And any BS George Costanza-esque "People! We're living in a SOCIETY" answer is not a legitimate reason.
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