Do you consider healthcare as a right for every citizen a far left position? (Senate, constitutional)
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First of all, health care isn't a "right." No such right exists in the US Constitution.
Furthermore, even if the severely warped 9th Circuit at some time declares health care is a right, that doesn't mean others can be obligated/forced to pay for it, just like arms owners can't oblige/force others to pay for their guns and ammunition just because they have a 2nd Amendment Constitutional Right to such.
So, to you, people who don't have the money to treat a severe medical condition, such as cancer, need to be sat down with and told they must somehow, someway either come up with the money for treatment or expect to die soon. And when death comes, who is paying to bury or incinerate them, since you sure as hell don't?
Cancer survival rates in the US are superior to every single country, bar none.
The 5-year survival rate for the 4 most common cancers is appalling in Britain. Compare:
Breast Cancer: UK 69.7% while US leads the World at 83.9% If you're a woman, you want to be in the US, not the UK.
Colorectal Men: UK 42.3% while US leads the World at 59.1%
Colorectal Women: 44.7% while US leads the World at 60.2%
Prostate: UK 51.1% while US leads the World at 91.9% If you're a man, you want to be in the US, not the UK, because your survival chances are 1.7x better than in the UK.
The NHS might be okay for a boil on the bum or bronchitis, but not for serious life-threatening illnesses.
You can read Delay, Dilution and Denial, by the British National Health Service for an expose on that.
And, for the record, those facts come from your own US Centers for Disease Control, the British National Health Service and a British medical journal, Lancet, which is the equivalent to our AMA Journal of Medicine.
You can find those facts in the CONCORD Study.
Explain to us why a woman with breast cancer would ever want to be in Britain with a dismal survival rate?
Actually, only 98%-99% of people in Germany are actually covered by their "universal" healthcare system.
In any event, I'll let the former German Minister of Health explain a reality to you:
"In the past 20 years, our overriding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income. Virtual budgets are also set up at the regional levels; these ensure that all participants in the system—including the health insurance funds and providers— know from the beginning of the year onward how much money can be spent."
[emphasis mine]
Source: How Germany is reining in health care costs: An interview with Franz Knieps
Did you understand what you read?
I'm not sure you did.
There's an annual budget. That budget is equally divided on a fiscal quarter basis, and then every participant gets a portion of the budgeted money for the fiscal quarter.
For the US, that would be tantamount to a hospital getting $4 Million for a fiscal quarter.
If the hospital blows through $3.5 Million in January and February, then there's only $500,000 for March, and no more.
Most people in Euro-States can see a doctor within a reasonable amount of time, but seeing a doctor and getting treatment are two totally different things, because diagnosis and treatment are separate acts.
So, you might be diagnosed, but it might be weeks or months or even years before you actually get treatment, depending on where you fall in their system of prioritization, and how much money is available and when it becomes available.
Yes, they ration, dilute, delay and deny treatment.
And, you're stuck, because you can't go anywhere else.
In Germany, you can only be treated in your State. In Switzerland, you can only be treated in your Canton.
That's right. In Switzerland, you can only be treated in the Canton in which you live. You're not allowed to go to another Canton for treatment, because they won't pay for it.
Someone in Dearborn County, Indiana can be treated there, or go to Hamilton, Butler or Clermont Counties in Ohio, or Boone, Kenton or Campbell Counties in Kentucky for treatment without being penalized.
I point that out, because few of you understand how it really works in other countries.
So, no doubt, you're trying to say in this country healthcare through bankruptcy when needed should rule. Government health care must be rejected.
Liberals have always had an issue with Constitutional Rights. They think a Constitutional Right is anything they agree with and anything they don't like, even if it's explicitly enumerated in the actual Constitution, should be banned. This is why people like Ruth Bader Ginsberg, who is a disgrace is a hero to leftists.
Really, it's no different with conservatives. They quite strongly don't think that withholding needed medical treatment from prisoners constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.
over diagnose??? really you are going with that excuse...hmm
What excuse, UK Cancer figures, I have already cited the ten year survical figures for major common types of cancer in the UK such as breast, bowel (colorectal) and prostate and they are very good in terms of early stage diagnosis, and are improving and the UK is trying to encourage more people to undergo more free screening to improve early detection even further and to set up a nationaide role out of rapid diagnostic centres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Are you saying the US Centers for Disease Control, the British National Health Service and the British medical journal Lancet are all liars?
Why would they lie?
"Cancer Research UK" doesn't run the British National Health Service.
The British National Health Service is run by the British National Health Service.
Apparently, you did not know that.
The figures I quoted were from Cancer Research UK, Britain's number one cancer organisation which works closely with the NHS. In terms of Canmcer Research UK it one of the most highly resopected organisations in the entire world, as well as being the world's largest independent cancer research charity, and I also posted the figures in relation to the Office for National Statistics and the latest figures from the BBC which both tally with Cancer Research UK's own figures.
Indeed in terms of Breast and Prostate cancer both are highly treatable, whilst bowel cancer screening is carried out throughout the UK as early diagnosis is an important factor in terms of treatment.
So, to you, people who don't have the money to treat a severe medical condition, such as cancer, need to be sat down with and told they must somehow, someway either come up with the money for treatment or expect to die soon.
Of course not. That's what charities and donations are for. All the people who back health care paid for by others can open their wallets and donate to pay for the cost of the health care. That should be no problem since so many seem to support the 'someone ELSE pay for health care' model. Let society vote with their wallets.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Of course not. That's what charities and donations are for. All the people who back health care paid for by others can open their wallets and donate to pay for the cost of the health care. That should be no problem since so many seem to support the 'someone ELSE pay for health care' model. Let society vote with their wallets.
I'm curious what you're going to do when we do get single payer, because it is going to happen, the writing is on the walls
I'm curious what you're going to do when we do get single payer, because it is going to happen, the writing is on the walls
No, it isn't. 180 million people lose their private sector insurance? It'll never happen. That's an even more lethal 3rd rail than Medicare.
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at some time declares health care is a right, that doesn't mean others can be obligated/forced to pay for it, just like arms owners can't oblige/force others to pay for their guns and ammunition just because they have a 2nd Amendment Constitutional Right to such.
