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Old 06-23-2019, 10:15 AM
 
19,724 posts, read 10,135,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
What a bunch of crap. The US has been responsible for the spread of representative governments around the world and delivering nations from totalitarian rule.


Only a lib would think otherwise.
In central America, our CIA overthrew the democratically elected governments.

 
Old 06-23-2019, 10:31 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,756,050 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
What a bunch of crap. The US has been responsible for the spread of representative governments around the world and delivering nations from totalitarian rule.


Only a lib would think otherwise.


Most nations, after military conquests, will claim acquired lands as their own and their people under the yoke of an imperial government. Not the US- we freed western Europe and occupied nothing. We freed the entire Pacific Rim and established elected governments there.


There would be no robust western Europe, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, or Panama without the US. Witness the slave states established by a more sinister government, like the USSR.

At the times of WWII the US was certainly much less of a rogue state.

Several countries freed western Europe, including Russia. And yes, of course Europe was occupied for decades by the US, Britain, France, and Russia.

Elections never were a problem in Europe, we had them long before the war, it was in fact invented here. After the war we merely returned to democracy.
Nor is there any reason why countries that were not democratic in the past should become democratic. The idea that every country has to be democratic is silly. To the contrary, one can see the results of democracy in countries like the US, Brazil, Britain, etc. where society is totally split in half and full of hate. China might not be democratic, but most Chinese support their government. Democracy serves to make countries weak by splitting the population so that the elite can run and rip off the country in the background.

And today the US is considered a flawed democracy by the Economist.
 
Old 06-23-2019, 10:33 AM
 
19,724 posts, read 10,135,138 times
Reputation: 13096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
At the times of WWII the US was certainly much less of a rogue state.

Several countries freed western Europe, including Russia. And yes, of course Europe was occupied for decades by the US, Britain, France, and Russia.

Elections never were a problem in Europe, we had them long before the war, it was in fact invented here. After the war we merely returned to democracy.
Nor is there any reason why countries that were not democratic in the past should become democratic. The idea that every country has to be democratic is silly. To the contrary, one can see the results of democracy in countries like the US, Brazil, Britain, etc. where society is totally split in half and full of hate. China might not be democratic, but most Chinese support their government. Democracy serve to make countries weak by splitting the population so that the elite can run and rip off the country in the background.

And today the US is considered a flawed democracy by the Economist.
Technically, the US is not a democracy. It is a representative republic.
 
Old 06-23-2019, 10:35 AM
 
52,430 posts, read 26,648,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
......

And today the US is considered a flawed democracy by the Economist.
Which country do you consider to have a perfect democracy?
 
Old 06-23-2019, 10:37 AM
 
19,724 posts, read 10,135,138 times
Reputation: 13096
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Which country do you consider to have a perfect democracy?
There are no true democracies. Won't work. Can you imagine everyone voting on every expenditure?
 
Old 06-23-2019, 10:39 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,756,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Technically, the US is not a democracy. It is a representative republic.
Well, there are various types of democracy, the US system of a representative republic is just one of many.
 
Old 06-23-2019, 10:41 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,756,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Which country do you consider to have a perfect democracy?
There are no perfect ones of course, but some are better than others:

https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...topped-in-2018
 
Old 06-23-2019, 10:44 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,858,743 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
The article first came out in 2015. At the time the war on Yemen was getting started. It has nothing to do with the fake left-right divide. The article is counting the death toll of the wars in which the US have been involved (not counting the very latest ones). The conclusion is 20-30 millions since WWII.

You should point out the fallacies if you want to make your point valid. Show me all the fallacies.

first fallacy, the US is responsible for 20-30 million deaths. that presumes that the us government went out with the intention of killing lots of people.
 
Old 06-23-2019, 10:52 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 577,639 times
Reputation: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
What a bunch of crap. The US has been responsible for the spread of representative governments around the world and delivering nations from totalitarian rule.


Only a lib would think otherwise.


Most nations, after military conquests, will claim acquired lands as their own and their people under the yoke of an imperial government. Not the US- we freed western Europe and occupied nothing. We freed the entire Pacific Rim and established elected governments there.


There would be no robust western Europe, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, or Panama without the US. Witness the slave states established by a more sinister government, like the USSR.
Other than the last sentence every single point you just made is laughable. There are thousands of troops in western Europe, Japan, pacific islands, Latin America and Africa.

The US did not overthrow totalitarian government to install democracies, the purpose is to install governments that push western friendly policies. If it happens to be democratic, that's just a plus.
 
Old 06-23-2019, 10:55 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,756,050 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
first fallacy, the US is responsible for 20-30 million deaths. that presumes that the us government went out with the intention of killing lots of people.
Actually no, being responsible can also include willful negligence etc.
Then again, I do think there has always been a strong homicidal and genocidal trait in the US, think of the Indians, black people, eugenics, Vietnam, ...
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