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Old 06-23-2019, 11:18 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 577,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
first fallacy, the US is responsible for 20-30 million deaths. that presumes that the us government went out with the intention of killing lots of people.
It does not presume that at all. In fact, in recent times some coups and government overthrowns have occurred without firing a shot (Honduras, Brasil).

The US is responsible of killing so many people--not for the sake of killing--but because of covert, economic and conventional war in order to put in power government that will set policies that benefit the US.

What a weak attempt. Let me help you out. The US claims all the death is justified because it was acting against the threat of communism. Whether you think it was justified or not, it doesn't change the fact that the US is responsible for most of the dead. I happen to believe that it is justified as communism is worst that the crony capitalism that reigns today.

The issue shouldn't be choosing left vs right biases, or capitalism vs socialism. But how to create fair relations and neither side is interested in that.

 
Old 06-23-2019, 11:28 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
It does not presume that at all. In fact, in recent times some coups and government overthrowns have occurred without firing a shot (Honduras, Brasil).

The US is responsible of killing so many people--not for the sake of killing--but because of covert, economic and conventional war in order to put in power government that will set policies that benefit the US.

What a weak attempt. Let me help you out. The US claims all the death is justified because it was acting against the threat of communism. Whether you think it was justified or not, it doesn't change the fact that the US is responsible for most of the dead. I happen to believe that it is justified as communism is worst that the crony capitalism that reigns today.

The issue shouldn't be choosing left vs right biases, or capitalism vs socialism. But how to create fair relations and neither side is interested in that.
What do you mean by it?
If a communist (or any other type of) country attacks another country, then the international community should step in based on a UN mandate. But if a country is communist and leaves other countries alone, it is none of anybody's business what kind of system that country has.
Like with China at the moment. Who are we to tell China to privatize their economy when China does not tell us to nationalize ours?!
 
Old 06-23-2019, 11:30 AM
 
52,431 posts, read 26,636,151 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
There are no perfect ones of course, but some are better than others:
Then by your own words, they are all flawed.

You have no point other than you have stereotypes in your head about a country of 320,000,000 planted there by a couple of pundits from a grocery store rag.


(hint: you lost the argument when all you can do is post a link to someone else's nonsense)
 
Old 06-23-2019, 11:40 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 577,149 times
Reputation: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
What do you mean by it?
If a communist (or any other type of) country attacks another country, then the international community should step in based on a UN mandate. But if a country is communist and leaves other countries alone, it is none of anybody's business what kind of system that country has.
Like with China at the moment. Who are we to tell China to privatize their economy when China does not tell us to nationalize ours?!
By it I was talking about the wars and death.

What you are saying is what should be, not what happens in practice. The US can unilaterally attack any country simply because it is the most powerful force and a UN mandate won't change anything. Remember the domino effect theory. Dozens of countries were destroyed just for the simple fact that they turned communist.

And yes the US is constantly telling China to open up. They refuse and we have a trade war.
 
Old 06-23-2019, 11:41 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Then by your own words, they are all flawed.

You have no point other than you have stereotypes in your head about a country of 320,000,000 planted there by a couple of pundits from a grocery store rag.


(hint: you lost the argument when all you can do is post a link to someone else's nonsense)
It is not nonsense, but you are free to prove those people wrong who have invested a lot of time and effort in studying those things...

No, the map in the link clearly shows which democracies are flawed and which aren't. Canada's is clearly better for instance is not flawed.

Stereotypes? We are talking about governments here, not 320 million people, which however does not at all mean that the population is innocent. After all, those governments don't fall from the sky...
 
Old 06-23-2019, 11:49 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
By it I was talking about the wars and death.

What you are saying is what should be, not what happens in practice. The US can unilaterally attack any country simply because it is the most powerful force and a UN mandate won't change anything. Remember the domino effect theory. Dozens of countries were destroyed just for the simple fact that they turned communist.

And yes the US is constantly telling China to open up. They refuse and we have a trade war.
Which is why I am on China's side, the world desperately needs other major powers to keep the fascists in Washington at bay.
Also, the US totally depends on other countries. If Europe, Japan etc. kicked the US out and joined forces economically and militarily, the US would collapse fast. The US is lucky that the EU for instance is run by very lazy, opportunist people.
 
Old 06-23-2019, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,754,224 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
first fallacy, the US is responsible for 20-30 million deaths. that presumes that the us government went out with the intention of killing lots of people.
????? There's one thing that's absolutely true about any war the US engages in. We send forces armed with a nearly unlimited supply of the most effective weapons on the planet, and the soldiers are well-trained in how to use them.
 
Old 06-23-2019, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,641,969 times
Reputation: 9676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
The wars we have been in since WW2 led to the deaths of millions and accomplished nothing. Look at Afghanistan. 18 years and we are in the same place and all we have done is lost many Americans and killed a lot of people defending their homeland. Same with Vietnam, Iraq, etc. We lost in all of them. We have gained zero.
Eisenhower warned us about the that. The desire to make money from the government military industrial complex, so some people gained. Those trillion$ spent on military ventures should have been, instead, spent on infrastructure at home. I guess the money in doing that isn't as easy. Hopefully, President Trump will keep up out of war.

America would be more popular in the world if it would stay out of the affairs of other countries. From being a considerably bigger country, invading Iran would come at a much greater cost than Iraq and doubly so if full victory is desired.
 
Old 06-23-2019, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,641,969 times
Reputation: 9676
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
????? There's one thing that's absolutely true about any war the US engages in. We send forces armed with a nearly unlimited supply of the most effective weapons on the planet, and the soldiers are well-trained in how to use them.
Was it worth it since Vietnam? Vietnam is still communist after over 50,000 U. S. troops killed.
 
Old 06-23-2019, 12:21 PM
 
19,724 posts, read 10,128,243 times
Reputation: 13091
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
Was it worth it since Vietnam? Vietnam is still communist after over 50,000 U. S. troops killed.
That is just a number to some. To those of us who were there, they are friends and neighbors.
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