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right, he was in the back of the plane praying, NOT sitting down. Thats an issue. It doesnt matter if it was only going to be 30 seconds, if he couldnt pray in his seat he should have done it before boarding the plane.
As a pilot, I would have kicked him off also, and have done so for similar circumstances - though none involved praying, not that it would make a difference. Our primary goal is safety, so in such an instance the question becomes: If he is willing to disregard instructions before the aircraft has pushed back, what may happen once we are airborne at 30,000 ft. and are all locked up together in this tin can? An aircraft cannot taxi while passengers are not seated. If even one gets up, an F/A is supposed to call the pilot and let him know, at which point we must stop the aircraft, even if it causes a line behind us. By him not being in his seat, he was preventing operation of that aircraft by not allowing it to pushback, forcing everybody to wait.
It was already said, but the issue wasn't the praying, the issue was the refusal to comply with instructions. That alone is justification to be removed, most especially if still at the gate with options available for removal - avoids a possible in flight diversion.
You'd be surprised how often people are kicked off flights. Yet they don't make the news...
No one is trying to hold the passenger blameless. The question is whether the crew responded to the situation appropriately. From the report, there is no reason to believe that there was any potential compromise to safety. The passenger was calm, sober, and willing to retake his seat as directed within 120 seconds. This is not a long time. Much more delay than that was occasioned by the decision to remove him. Again, the only question is whether in this case the crew chose the best option from among those that were available to them...
No one is trying to hold the passenger blameless. The question is whether the crew responded to the situation appropriately. From the report, there is no reason to believe that there was any potential compromise to safety. The passenger was calm, sober, and willing to retake his seat as directed within 120 seconds. This is not a long time. Much more delay than that was occasioned by the decision to remove him. Again, the only question is whether in this case the crew chose the best option from among those that were available to them...
bs! You are basically telling us you can break the FAA regulations that concerning everyone safety or schedule so you could pray? Once you are in the air, passenger has to listen to the pilots or F/A.
Let me then ask the same question more directly. The crew were faced with a defined situation. They had a range of options to choose from in seeking to best deal with that situation. Did they make the most appropriate choice and why...
Let me then ask the same question more directly. The crew were faced with a defined situation. They had a range of options to choose from in seeking to best deal with that situation. Did they make the most appropriate choice and why...
Yes they made the right decision b/c he knew when he booked the flight what time it would take off. If he couldn't say the prayer FROM HIS SEAT, he shouldn't have booked this particlar flight. 120 seconds may not be that long but the point is if every passenger felt the need to hold up flights with some bs, there would be longer delays than there are. It's not about him being Jewish or anything else. When the flight crew says put up electronic devices and make sure your tray tables and seat backs are upright, it's time to go. Follow the rules or get off the plane. It's that simple, period.
I understand the point and at least partially agree, but it still seems to me like there's a tendency to generalize the particular situation into some generic form and then respond to that almost by rote. Is that the way it should be? I'm a little troubled by that...
rules on airlines should be black or white... There shouldnt be "fly by ear" rules. Who is the one that decides whether his praying took too long or not? To be fair, everything has to be black or white...
otherwise one person prays for 2 min, the next person for five, the next for 7, the next for 10, the next for 13... at what point does it stop? I mean, none of them prayed 3 minutes longer then the guy before them... how to you be fair? should the airlines post a sign that says "please do not pray unless you can do it in less then 2 minutes?" and if it DOES... then u enter into a religious biased since the prayers of some religions last more than 2 minutes...
too many ifs/buts/and sos... Black and White is the only fair way to handle it.
Your smoke and mirrors aside, the cases are similar enough to be included in this thread. Perhaps the airline in this latter case will pursue a similar strategy and search out enough Christian-haters to prevail in court. This forum would be a fertile hunting grouond for such folks...
Refresh my memory, but were the muslims denied boarding because of their prayer ritual in the boarding area? My reading of the stories on this instance was that the jewish fellow was already boarded and interrupting flight operations by not adhereing to FAA regulations by being seated while the airplane is in motion.
These two scenarios seem very different to me. Apples and concrete blocks you might say.
rules on airlines should be black or white... There shouldnt be "fly by ear" rules. Who is the one that decides whether his praying took too long or not? To be fair, everything has to be black or white...
I think the airlines themselves establish a practical standard for what is too long and too short by the degrees of delay and tardiness against scheduled departure time from the gate that they tolerate for other reasons without problem on a regular and on-going basis. What is the actual percentage of flights that seals the doors no less than two minutes after the time originally scheduled to do so? By design, I don't fly frequently enough anymore to hazard a guess. Over the many years preceding the late 1990's or so when I did fly frequently enough to hazard a guess, I would have guessed something rather less than 50%.
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