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WV and MS are using the same system CA and NY want to use. Whatever shortcomings they may have measles outbreaks are not happening there.
If some doctors were not giving out fake exemptions there would not be so many unvaccinated children. There is no way that 60% of the kindergartners in a school should qualify for an exemption. It does not matter what the state wide rate is. What matters is the rate in the local community.
Ameer is in CA? I thought he was in NY.
You didn't answer the question:
I asked what percentage of ALL PUBLIC schools have a 40% vaccination rate? It's what you claimed in an earlier post.
Why do you assume the ALLEGED 60% -- because you haven't proved that 40% vaccination rate -- but I'll play along -- Why do you assume that 60% HAVE a medical exemption? Where's your proof of that allegation?
You have not provided any source materials that support your claims.
And how is <1% = "handed out like candy?"
If exemptions were being "handed out like candy," the exemption rate should be at least 75%.
Therein lies the problem with allowing health officials who don’t know the child’s health history and individual circumstances to make blanket decision about when a medical exemption is and is not allowed. This is becoming a problem in NY according to recent news stories and will become a problem in CA since they just passed a new law which will do the exact same thing. We need to respect the doctor patient relationship and allow those who know their patient best to make these kinds of decisions.
Your assumption is that a "blanket decision" is being made. The general recommendation is to vaccinate children with epilepsy because infections with fever can trigger seizures and there is evidence that seizures are not more frequent in relation to vaccination in children with epilepsy. The benefit to risk ratio is shifted toward vaccination. You, however, never want to admit that vaccine preventable diseases are dangerous.
You also have apparently still not read the first post that I made in this thread where I said that in the absence of any information on the effect of vaccination on the particular seizure disorder that Ameer has I would favor allowing the exemption. Get that? Do I have to shout it in all caps to get the message across? I have not said that the child in the OP should be denied an exemption. What else do I have to say to make it clear to you? Good grief, you have even quoted me saying allow the exemption in one of your very own posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
The medical exemption rate was less then 1% prior to the elimination of religious and philosophical exemptions in California. It was still less then 1% after those were eliminated. The problem with “fake exemptions” is overblown. Taking away a doctor’s ability to make the call based on their patient’s medical history is awful.
West Virginia and Mississippi have not gone to the extremes that California and apparently now, New York are going to. It’s worth noting that Ameer’s Medical exemption was accepted in previous years, just not this year. Something changed and it seems they are following in CAs footsteps.
NY and CA are different from WV and MS due to not being hubs for international travelers. Very few schools have the high exemption rates that you keep bringing up as justification for barring boys like Ameer, who could die from a vaccination, from school. Doctor’s should be the one’s making the decisions about medical exemptions, not faceless boards who have never met the patient basing it on black and white criteria that may or may not apply.
MS and WV already have the system that CA and NY plan to adopt.
The problem with fake exemptions is not overblown. They were being given to children with no medical contraindications to vaccination because parents scared to death of autism do not want to vaccinate their children. Some unscrupulous docs took advantage of them and were selling exemptions. That is, quite frankly, malpractice.
The overall state exemption rate is not relevant. The issue is pockets of vaccine refusers: groups of people who do not vaccinate their children and who live, go to school, and perhaps worship together. Do you really not understand why there were large ongoing measles outbreaks in Brooklyn and Rockland County, NY this past year? If you do not, perhaps you should not be discussing vaccines at all, because there is a very deep void in your fund of knowledge about the topic.
If unvaccinated children were dispersed about the state they would not threaten herd immunity. They are not, and they do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Suzy, what do you think this boy and his family should do? Vaccinate him against his neurologist’s advice so that he can go back to school and pray that he doesn’t die or end up in the hospital for multiple days? Or just continue homeschooling even though they think he would be better off in school?
I have already said what I think, several times. I will repeat it once more: allow the exemption. I do have a concern about his exposure to flu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
You didn't answer the question:
I asked what percentage of ALL PUBLIC schools have a 40% vaccination rate? It's what you claimed in an earlier post.
Why do you assume the ALLEGED 60% -- because you haven't proved that 40% vaccination rate -- but I'll play along -- Why do you assume that 60% HAVE a medical exemption? Where's your proof of that allegation?
You have not provided any source materials that support your claims.
And how is <1% = "handed out like candy?"
If exemptions were being "handed out like candy," the exemption rate should be at least 75%.
I showed you the map with the schools color coded by vaccination status. If you want a percentage, count the dots and do the math yourself. The percentage is irrelevant. If measles is introduced into even one of the schools with so many unvaccinated students we could see a large outbreak like he one in NY this past year.
That outbreak was the impetus for changing the law, you know.
If there is only a 40% vaccination rate the other 60% have exemptions, because otherwise they could not go to school.
I have already said what I think, several times. I will repeat it once more: allow the exemption. I do have a concern about his exposure to flu.
The exemption is not allowed though due to the legislation that you support that gives the state power to decide what is and is not allowed rather then deferring to the doctor. This is not a hypothetical situation. This is a real boy and a real family. What would you do if you were in their shoes? Saying that you would allow the exemption is meaningless. His exemption was denied. This is legislation that you have supported. Remember?
Your assumption is that a "blanket decision" is being made. The general recommendation is to vaccinate children with epilepsy because infections with fever can trigger seizures and there is evidence that seizures are not more frequent in relation to vaccination in children with epilepsy. The benefit to risk ratio is shifted toward vaccination. You, however, never want to admit that vaccine preventable diseases are dangerous.
You also have apparently still not read the first post that I made in this thread where I said that in the absence of any information on the effect of vaccination on the particular seizure disorder that Ameer has I would favor allowing the exemption. Get that? Do I have to shout it in all caps to get the message across? I have not said that the child in the OP should be denied an exemption. What else do I have to say to make it clear to you? Good grief, you have even quoted me saying allow the exemption in one of your very own posts.
MS and WV already have the system that CA and NY plan to adopt.
The problem with fake exemptions is not overblown. They were being given to children with no medical contraindications to vaccination because parents scared to death of autism do not want to vaccinate their children. Some unscrupulous docs took advantage of them and were selling exemptions. That is, quite frankly, malpractice.
The overall state exemption rate is not relevant. The issue is pockets of vaccine refusers: groups of people who do not vaccinate their children and who live, go to school, and perhaps worship together. Do you really not understand why there were large ongoing measles outbreaks in Brooklyn and Rockland County, NY this past year? If you do not, perhaps you should not be discussing vaccines at all, because there is a very deep void in your fund of knowledge about the topic.
If unvaccinated children were dispersed about the state they would not threaten herd immunity. They are not, and they do.
I have already said what I think, several times. I will repeat it once more: allow the exemption. I do have a concern about his exposure to flu.
I showed you the map with the schools color coded by vaccination status. If you want a percentage, count the dots and do the math yourself. The percentage is irrelevant. If measles is introduced into even one of the schools with so many unvaccinated students we could see a large outbreak like he one in NY this past year.
That outbreak was the impetus for changing the law, you know.
If there is only a 40% vaccination rate the other 60% have exemptions, because otherwise they could not go to school.
You cherrypicked a map from 1 state. If the percentage was irrelevant, why did you claim previously that it was 40% and a huge problem?
So I will ask a THIRD TIME: What is the percentage of public schools that have a 40% vaccination rate? You posted that exact stat. Can you support it?
And if the exemptions are allowed, what is the issue?
AND: What percent of that 60% are MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS? Since they have they hand then out like candy, I bet it's high, maybe <1%?
AND again: The medical exemption HAS BEEN DENIED. What do recommend the family do, non dr suzy?
Please explain what is illegitimate about my links?
Quote:
There are several regular anti-vaxxers posting in this thread with an axe to grind, so please keep that in mind. Check their many anti-vaccination posts.
Find just one thread on vaccines that I ever started. Just one thread that I started to 'grind my axe'. Can you?
I've ended quite a few of them. I'm not aware of any truly antivaccine posters here. Most are ex-vaxxers. You are just us years ago before we knew better. And you will be one of us one day before it's over, because just like me; you seem incapable of absorbing information until you learn it the hard way.
And just like every living human; you are not above the roulette of vaccine-injury.
When all of the studies offered as 'proof' of safety are epidemiological & there are no etiological studies that offer a differential cause for vaccine-injury; the growing body of anecdotal evidence would NORMALLY raise concerns for bias in the epidemiology & by law; epidemiology cannot prove causation unless supported by etiological studies.
There are no etiological study for SIDS or Autism (two commonly alleged vaccine-injuries) that offers a different etiology ...not 'association' or correlation but a different etiological cause other than Immune-Mediation. This is what a critical analysis of the obvious bias in the epidemiology determines; largely a discussion of Risk Ratio. The author has chosen to remain anonymous but if you have any scientific background whatsoever, you may recognize the manner that the argument is presented in is far from that of an amateur.
Please explain what is illegitimate about my links?
Find just one thread on vaccines that I ever started. Just one thread that I started to 'grind my axe'. Can you?
I've ended quite a few of them. I'm not aware of any truly antivaccine posters here. Most are ex-vaxxers. You are just us years ago before we knew better. And you will be one of us one day before it's over, because just like me; you seem incapable of absorbing information until you learn it the hard way.
Most vaccine threads are started by 1 poster who is very much pro vaccine to the point of supporting mandatory vaccination. This thread has to do with medical exemptions. Not whether people are for or against or for choice. But the pro vaccine posters are directing the conversation that way, and conveniently looking away from the facts of the denied MEDICAL exemption.
You also have apparently still not read the first post that I made in this thread where I said that in the absence of any information on the effect of vaccination on the particular seizure disorder that Ameer has I would favor allowing the exemption. Get that? Do I have to shout it in all caps to get the message across? I have not said that the child in the OP should be denied an exemption. What else do I have to say to make it clear to you? Good grief, you have even quoted me saying allow the exemption in one of your very own posts.
I got it the first time you said it. That’s why I quoted it. Not sure what makes you think I missed it. The fact is, these are the real life repercussions of the legislation that you support. It doesn’t matter if you favor a hypothetical exemption. This boy and others have been denied medical exemptions due to the legislation that you whole heartedly support. Do you get the consequences of that extreme legislation yet that you support? This is it.
NY State just eliminated vaccine exemptions for anything but medical reasons. Even so, a boy in Blasdell NY who has a cerebral palsy and rare seizure disorder and who filed for a medical exemption with support from his neurologist has been barred from attending school after the state medical board decided that they know what’s best, not his neurologist.
I don’t care where you stand when it comes to other types of vaccine exemptions (so lets’s not get into a debate about those) but when medical exemptions are being denied even in the face of real issues, we have a serious problem. Nothing that we put into bodies is one size fits all, that goes for food and medicine. This boy is currently being homeschooled but would really like to go back to school. Taking away the ability for doctors and specialists who know their own patients and instead giving the control and power to the State Medical Board who doesn’t even know them is a big problem.
I think the decision may be right. They didn't force him to get a vaccine. But they have to consider the health of the other students.
These are hard decisions. But he can still get educated, and the other kids aren't exposed to children who aren't vaccinated. They could get sick & die from exposure to him. It's tough. But this is the only thing I see that gives both groups what they need.
The state didn't take away his right not to get vaccinated. He is not vaccinated, and he's being educated. I suppose when he gets older, it'll be fine? I don't remember when kids stop having to get vaccinated.
Your very response is the reason I hesitated. Did you miss that I said I favored following the recommendation of Ameer's doctors?
Do you understand how hard it is to study rare diseases? Most research with Ameer's condition has been directed toward helping reduce the frequency of seizures. He is going to have seizures whether he is vaccinated or not. Many parents of children with rare diseases do enroll them in studies in hopes that their children will be helped now and other children in the future. If no parents of children with rare diseases are willing to do it, no one ever benefits. No progress is made.
Your assumption that Ameer would have a fatal reaction is not based on any information I can find. Maybe you will share the source where you found it?
You support following the recommendation of his doctor but then have actively searched for supporting evidence to undermine his doctor & would request I search to find evidence to support his doctor?
Ameer suffers life-threatening seizures from vaccinations. Don't vaccinate Ameer, unless you don't care about Ameer's life. Simple.
Quote:
If your family were to be coming in close contact with someone like Ameer, would you vaccinate them all against flu?
Would I again vaccinate my already vaccine-injured child for anybody? Are you nuts? Watch him scream in pain & terror as his brain swells AGAIN? Poison him with the aluminum that he has already shown to be unable to properly metabolize AGAIN? Watch him lose his ability to walk, talk or to control his bladder & bowels AGAIN?
I wouldn't do that for anybody again & I sure as hell wouldn't ask Ameer's parents to do it for my kid either.
I got it the first time you said it. That’s why I quoted it. Not sure what makes you think I missed it. The fact is, these are the real life repercussions of the legislation that you support. It doesn’t matter if you favor a hypothetical exemption. This boy and others have been denied medical exemptions due to the legislation that you whole heartedly support. Do you get the consequences of that extreme legislation yet that you support? This is it.
I support exemptions for valid medical indications. Fear of autism, which is what is driving the fake exemption business, is not a valid indication.
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Good grief, you have even quoted me saying allow the exemption in one of your very own posts. 
