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First - ALL business exists to make, sustain and grow profits. Period. In the "for-profit" case, the profit is split among the owners/shareholders of the business as they see fit. In the case of the "non-profit" the profits are reinvested in the company or saved for future operations. But all business exists for one reason - profit.
Next - your complaint is based on your wildly ignorant and misguided belief that business exists to provide jobs. That is false. In fact, all business seeking to maximize profit (which all should, as that is the name of the game) would employ the fewest number of people in order to satisfy the corporate revenue goals, thus minimizing labor costs.
Finally - your complaint also fails to mention that the "college frat buddies" making those ridiculous decisions that ruined thousands of lives did so under a wide array of laws created by meddlesome GOVERNMENT that shields the college frat boys from the financial consequences of their bad decisions. Understand very, very clearly that the entire notion of the corporation as you know it is 100% a government construct. The corporate America you want to turn over to government control ALREADY IS government controlled. It could exist as it is today no other way than to have the protection of Leviathan's monopoly on force and violence. Thus, your "solution" is to do same as today, just more? Fewer business people, more wildly ignorant bureaucrats trying to skim off the top? Really? That to you is a solution?
And lives are not ruined by a company going out business. Investors lose money if they were foolish enough to have zero diversification or gambled too hard on one bet, and employees lose jobs, but if your life is ruined by a company going out of business, the ruination is your own fault, as you invested too much into what is at best a guaranteed uncertainty. But no company goes out of business overnight, and no company controls the 128 hours per week you are not at work and could be doing other things to insure against future risk, and no company controls your savings/insurance behavior generally. If your life gets ruined, then you didn't just stand on the tracks and waited to be hit by the train, you got out a sleeping bag ad pillow and full on sacked out on the tracks, hoping for it.
People have to have money to buy the things being produced ... We are starting to see what happens when people are forced into minimalism / FI its only going to go more towards that as lay offs become more prevalent. Then every family is going to be employing astruity measures in their own budgets and comapnies will have to down size more, people will cut back more ...
Where does that end, in a pseudo barter system or only very basic goods being traded to survive (other than by the super rich of course).
The more humans involved the less greed of a select few can destroyed the live of many people. Thats the point and the question of Should the Private Sector be done away with since the private sector is notorious for a select few of individuals running companies completely into the ground thus destroying the lives of THOUSANDS of people
No it isnt notorious for that you are out of your mind
The more humans involved the less greed of a select few can destroyed the live of many people. Thats the point and the question of Should the Private Sector be done away with since the private sector is notorious for a select few of individuals running companies completely into the ground thus destroying the lives of THOUSANDS of people
That didn’t work in Soviet Russia or in any of the former Eastern European countries that were forced into Communism/Socialism and it will not work here in the United States.
Even in the Soviet era, there was the elite political class that received the best of everything, without restrictions and on items that only the working class could only dream about... And were only finally able to purchase when the Communist/Socialist totally failed and the free market took root in Russia.
If you think that the old Soviet people’s retirement system was so great, you haven’t been alive that long or been able to talk to people who lived under a Communist/Socialist governments to get their points of view.
I to have been alive long enough to see what works and what doesn’t. And Communism/Socialism doesn’t work and it will never work in the United States... Period. Before people try to mention the Scandinavian or Canadian form of “Socialism,” first, it’s not really a form of Socialism and second, the combined population of Canada and the four Scandinavian countries is approximately 58 million, compared the the United States “legal” population of approximately 330 million.
Seriously, if Communism or even Socialism-Lite should gain real traction here in the US, I think it would be time for the United States to reform into a federation of two separate countries in order to pursue the style and future they believe in. This would include only taxing their own population to pay for their own programs and governmental functions within their own countries.
That didn’t work in Soviet Russia or in any of the former Eastern European countries that were forced into Communism/Socialism and it will not work here in the United States.
Even in the Soviet era, there was the elite political class that received the best of everything, without restrictions and on items that only the working class could only dream about... And were only finally able to purchase when the Communist/Socialist totally failed and the free market took root in Russia.
If you think that the old Soviet people’s retirement system was so great, you haven’t been alive that long or been able to talk to people who lived under a Communist/Socialist governments to get their points of view.
I to have been alive long enough to see what works and what doesn’t. And Communism/Socialism doesn’t work and it will never work in the United States... Period. Before people try to mention the Scandinavian or Canadian form of “Socialism,” first, it’s not really a form of Socialism and second, the combined population of Canada and the four Scandinavian countries is approximately 58 million, compared the the United States “legal” population of approximately 330 million.
Seriously, if Communism or even Socialism-Lite should gain real traction here in the US, I think it would be time for the United States to reform into a federation of two separate countries in order to pursue the style and future they believe in. This would include only taxing their own population to pay for their own programs and governmental functions within their own countries.
How would that even work, who gets the military, who gets the nukes, who gets the coast line. This would likely have to be fought over. What ever we want to call it it will be a civil war over resources.
All of these other isms at their root are resource civil wars, the reasons certian political class kept certian things is they were the ones who fought for it.
Ive been around long enough to see the highs and lows of America. Ive seen less than handful of people literally run companies of THOUSANDS of people into the ground. College frats buddies destroying the lives of thousands of people due to ridiculous business decision making that literally grade School kids wouldn't Make . Only to line their own pockets and only a select few benefit and everyone else is left destroyed and shattered.. Should we just have a government run economy where it doesn't take just a HANDFUL of people to destroy everyone's livelihoods completely.? Eliminate an, empty suit sector in its entirety. Nothing positive has ever came from unchecked corporate greed held unaccountable to do as they please.
It honestly baffles me how anyone in their right mind would advocate turning over their natural right to pursue their own best interest to someone else. Everyone should be "free to choose" as long as their action or inaction doesn't encroach upon the rights or property of another.
I'm being serious here. Even as a young child, each and everyone of us knew we liked certain foods and didn't like others. We had parents to guide and teach us, but once we were old enough to leave home we could eat anything we wanted, even an entire box of cookies and a container of ice cream, if we had the money to pay for it. Mind you that almost all of us understands that wouldn't be smart so we might do it once or maybe occasionally, but for the most part we all figured out that the upset stomach that we got when we pulled a stunt like that is not what we wanted so we started making better decisions based on what is in our own best interest. I'm 100% certain that there isn't a single person on CD that has liked every decision their parents made for them, forcing you to obey them.
Not a single one one of you could honestly claim you always liked every decision your parents forced upon you... yet you're going to somehow think that not having the right to choose anything because every decision will be made for you, by some person in a government office, and you think THAT'S the solution you want?
You might try to argue that I'm being dramatic but tell me what choice do people in Venezuela have on food when their stores shelves are bare? Can those people turn up their thermostat and heat up their house more if the government doesn't supply enough natural gas or electricity? Are the people in Venezuela able to choose between a gaming PC or a MAC? Can they choose between an iphone 10 or a Samsung Note 10, or are they lucky if they have enough money to buy any food IF the grocery store gets some? <<< THAT is what you'll get if you choose socialism because it is what ALWAYS happens. Someone else gets to make all the decisions instead of you. Why you ask? Because the government cannot and never has been able to run ANY business profitably. The government will be more concerned about keeping you people who want to choose in line, policing you, dictating to you, telling you what you can or cannot do, have, need, and there will be no choice because you don't need 10 much less 100 different kinds of cars to choose from because you wouldn't be able to afford one anyway, so there will only be a few different choices of cars for the elites in government and you better be happy if you can take a bus.
If government takes over the means of production, distribution and exchange of all business Venezuela is what you'll get. There will still be a few elite people in government who get rich but almost everyone else will suffer in poverty. Who in their right mind would even consider forcing something like that on themselves or anyone else?
True free market capitalism where everyone pretty much is "free to choose" what is in their own best interest is the ONLY economic system that has EVER improved the lot of the ordinary person. Government dictating what you can and cannot has NEVER in the history of humankind improved the lot of the ordinary person.
I own me. No one else has a right to claim ownership in me. I am not a slave and I will fight to the death if necessary to prevent anyone who claims they own me. If I am a free person who owns myself, that means I own my mind, my thoughts, my effort and ALL I can create and produce with my mind and body. No one else can claim they have right to take what I produce with my mind or body unless I voluntarily agree to exchange what I produced for what they have OR unless I voluntarily give what I have to them. Why would anyone in their right mind advocate becoming the property of someone else, a slave, a peasant in a socialist or communist country? Who in their right mind would voluntarily make such a stupid choice?
...in real Liberty, people are Free To Choose...
But then again, that's just MY opinion, for what it's worth.
It honestly baffles me how anyone in their right mind would advocate turning over their natural right to pursue their own best interest to someone else. Everyone should be "free to choose" as long as their action or inaction doesn't encroach upon the rights or property of another.
I'm being serious here. Even as a young child, each and everyone of us knew we liked certain foods and didn't like others. We had parents to guide and teach us, but once we were old enough to leave home we could eat anything we wanted, even an entire box of cookies and a container of ice cream, if we had the money to pay for it. Mind you that almost all of us understands that wouldn't be smart so we might do it once or maybe occasionally, but for the most part we all figured out that the upset stomach that we got when we pulled a stunt like that is not what we wanted so we started making better decisions based on what is in our own best interest. I'm 100% certain that there isn't a single person on CD that has liked every decision their parents made for them, forcing you to obey them.
Not a single one one of you could honestly claim you always liked every decision your parents forced upon you... yet you're going to somehow think that not having the right to choose anything because every decision will be made for you, by some person in a government office, and you think THAT'S the solution you want?
You might try to argue that I'm being dramatic but tell me what choice do people in Venezuela have on food when their stores shelves are bare? Can those people turn up their thermostat and heat up their house more if the government doesn't supply enough natural gas or electricity? Are the people in Venezuela able to choose between a gaming PC or a MAC? Can they choose between an iphone 10 or a Samsung Note 10, or are they lucky if they have enough money to buy any food IF the grocery store gets some? <<< THAT is what you'll get if you choose socialism because it is what ALWAYS happens. Someone else gets to make all the decisions instead of you. Why you ask? Because the government cannot and never has been able to run ANY business profitably. The government will be more concerned about keeping you people who want to choose in line, policing you, dictating to you, telling you what you can or cannot do, have, need, and there will be no choice because you don't need 10 much less 100 different kinds of cars to choose from because you wouldn't be able to afford one anyway, so there will only be a few different choices of cars for the elites in government and you better be happy if you can take a bus.
If government takes over the means of production, distribution and exchange of all business Venezuela is what you'll get. There will still be a few elite people in government who get rich but almost everyone else will suffer in poverty. Who in their right mind would even consider forcing something like that on themselves or anyone else?
True free market capitalism where everyone pretty much is "free to choose" what is in their own best interest is the ONLY economic system that has EVER improved the lot of the ordinary person. Government dictating what you can and cannot has NEVER in the history of humankind improved the lot of the ordinary person.
I own me. No one else has a right to claim ownership in me. I am not a slave and I will fight to the death if necessary to prevent anyone who claims they own me. If I am a free person who owns myself, that means I own my mind, my thoughts, my effort and ALL I can create and produce with my mind and body. No one else can claim they have right to take what I produce with my mind or body unless I voluntarily agree to exchange what I produced for what they have OR unless I voluntarily give what I have to them. Why would anyone in their right mind advocate becoming the property of someone else, a slave, a peasant in a socialist or communist country? Who in their right mind would voluntarily make such a stupid choice?
...in real Liberty, people are Free To Choose...
But then again, that's just MY opinion, for what it's worth.
They are not slaves, they just aren’t as good at fighting. Fighting and violence are forms of competition. You say you will fight to the death, but how good are you?
The czars family fought to the death too ...
Once all the bsing ends and being good at paper shuffling ends it’s going to boil down to how well you can execute in a fight.
What happens is people get tired of being taken advantage of and they fight, right now the USA has a military and police state like the world has never seen so they have maintained status quo much longer. This country is a pressure cooker that would have devolved long ago but people know they can’t beat the police state at this current time.
The problem is too many low income out there only able to afford mainly government services, like the utility bills, with not much left over to buy stuff from the private sector, other than food. It would help to raise the minimum wage.
The low-incomes are happy where they're at.
If they weren't happy, they'd take steps to change their life.
Right?
If you're in an unhappy marriage, you leave. If you're in an unhappy relationship, you terminate it. If you're unhappy about your job, you find a different job. If you're unhappy about where you live, you move.
If you're unhappy about your financial situation, then you take steps to change it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
People have to have money to buy the things being produced ...
It's their job to get that money.
It's not my job to get that money for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
First - ALL business exists to make, sustain and grow profits. Period. In the "for-profit" case, the profit is split among the owners/shareholders of the business as they see fit. In the case of the "non-profit" the profits are reinvested in the company or saved for future operations. But all business exists for one reason - profit.
That's an excellent point. Even non-profits need profits to survive.
You realize you're talking to people who have never run a business and wouldn't know where to start, right?
If they weren't happy, they'd take steps to change their life.
Right?
If you're in an unhappy marriage, you leave. If you're in an unhappy relationship, you terminate it. If you're unhappy about your job, you find a different job. If you're unhappy about where you live, you move.
If you're unhappy about your financial situation, then you take steps to change it.
It's their job to get that money.
It's not my job to get that money for them.
That's an excellent point. Even non-profits need profits to survive.
You realize you're talking to people who have never run a business and wouldn't know where to start, right?
Nope, your right. What I find comical is when industries whine and complain that demand has taken very sharp declines. If your going to take the cold hard supply/demand stance then you just have to be quite when people start choosing alternative life styles negative birth rates, socialist public policy, etc.
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