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You have brought up nothing to rebut. Your logic is flawed. Your conclusions are unsupported.
You might try to explain how my logic is flawed and my conclusions are wrong. Instead you chose to resort to ad homenin and assert that I am not intelligent enough to understand your position while at the same time claiming of all things that I suffer from narcissism? If you can't see the irony in that... I mean this is rich.
I will save you the trouble and won't discuss anything with you further since chances are you will likely end up telling me "neener neener", and if I wanted this level of "critical discussion" then I will seek out the nearest high school students dissertation on the nutritional benefits of a sack lunch.
TN says it's ludicrous. I tried to dumb it down using an example HE brought up. I suppose I did not dumb it down enough. I thought it was pretty simple.
Their Oil is being converted to other assets. Somehow, some people think it is just being spent on fancy cars and flashy clothes. Instead it is invested and buying up our ports, marquee properties and technology. If one cannot understand that, it is hopeless. I think the difficulty in seeing this stems from narcissism and arrogance.
Bob, they are doing BOTH! They ARE buying big, fancy cars. They ARE building skyscraper after skyscraper and building "fake" islands in their ocean. They ARE building a place to go skining in the desert. BUT they are also sinking money into the radiacal Islamics also. The Middle East has more money than the Vatican! That used to be the richest "government" on earth.
I think it is also a problem that some refuse to open their eyes and see what is happening in the world. They refuse to believe that the radical fundamentalists of Islam want to take over the world. They continue to stick their heads in the sand and believe what? It (they) will just go away? Not going to happen I'm afraid.
The war on terror is real whether a person chooses to believe it or not. I think there has been no time in history since WWII that the life of every living human being has been at risk and as a whole we have become too complacent.
Bob, they are doing BOTH! They ARE buying big, fancy cars. They ARE building skyscraper after skyscraper and building "fake" islands in their ocean. They ARE building a place to go skining in the desert. BUT they are also sinking money into the radiacal Islamics also. The Middle East has more money than the Vatican! That used to be the richest "government" on earth.
I think it is also a problem that some refuse to open their eyes and see what is happening in the world. They refuse to believe that the radical fundamentalists of Islam want to take over the world. They continue to stick their heads in the sand and believe what? It (they) will just go away? Not going to happen I'm afraid.
The war on terror is real whether a person chooses to believe it or not. I think there has been no time in history since WWII that the life of every living human being has been at risk and as a whole we have become too complacent.
No is claiming that radical Islam isn't a threat or a danger. However, just because radical Islam wants to rule the world doesn't mean it is going to happen either. Each day millions of people WANT to win the lottery and even they stand a better chance of this happening than radical Islam taking over the world.
I believe the OP was attempting to discuss the various roots, causes, and realistic threats from the rise of contemporary radical Islamic terrorism. No one denies these threats exist, however there is and always will be great debate over the various causes of why radical Islam has embraced terrorism.
We in America have somehow swallowed this pill of fear that somehow a bunch of backwater fundamentalist Muslims that want to return to living in the first century AD pose a dire threat to the United States of America, the first truly global empire that reaches even into space, a nation that has a military more powerful than the next 17 of the worlds largest nations combined, then we have to be the most cowardly and ignorant people to have ever existed. To see that there is a threat and danger from these kooks in caves is one thing but to think they will destroy western civilization is just the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.
Ask yourself, what are the two basic things that any civilization or empire needs to remain a power. It needs a unifying force, be it a cause, a threat or danger, or a need. Secondly it needs the means to achieve it, either through assimilation or force. Without these two things together, you will never achieve global power no matter how much you may want it.
I say that while radical Islam may desire and want to rule the earth, that it does not have the means to achieve it. The only means it has is very limited. While it is certainly a danger, in the long term it will return to being little more than sand dunes with a casino at the waters edge.
Of course the Ottoman empire existed, so did the Aztec's, the Persians, Rome, and so forth. At the time of their empires, their world was a much smaller place, (HUH? THAT IS NONSENSE)
while for instance Rome seemed to encompass the world to the people living in that time, the world then didn't include all the rest of the geography that actually does exist. What differentiates the Aztecs from the Ottomans or modern Islam desires for global domination or even global influence. IS THIS A SERIOUS STATEMENT? QUESTION? WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN?
They may desire it, but to want or desire something is quite a different story than actually achieving it. (DUH. BUT ACTING ON A DESIRE SUCCESSFUL OR NOT CAN LEAVE A LOT OF DESTRUCTION AND DEAD BODIES)
I'm not sure if you have something personal against Sandra Bullock or why you insist on focusing on her but my mention of her was a humorous analogy to show that the chance of Islam becoming a world power is even more slim than my getting to marry her. (Trying to compare a stalker of a Hollywood celebrity to the patience and nefarious intentions of the Islamic world is something I find rather ludicrous, although I have no doubt you will find a willing audience that will enjoy such a distinction. (YOU FIND IT LUDICROUS AND INSULT ME, WHILE OTHERS FIND IT AN EXCELLENT POINT AND CONGRATULATE ME)
Well if we wish to compare China, its people, culture, economic abilities to that of the Islamic world, then lets. (WHO WANTED TO COMPARE CHINA TO THE ISLAMIC WORLD? NOT ME. YOU JUST JUMP TO A CONCLUSION AND THEN YOU TRY TO SOUND SMART BY TYPING A BUNCH OF WORDS. AND DON"T EVEN GO THERE. I AM CHINESE AMERICAN, HAVE LIVED THERE IN CHINA, STUDIED IT, BEEN THERE DONE THAT FOR DECADES.)
China as far back as WWII and even prior had things like industry, a military and navy that had planes, battle ships, as well as a strong industrial capacity. In addition China has a wide variety of natural resources, a favorable environment for food production and its most notable resource, vast amounts of cheap labor. This labor pool has been one of the key assets to China ascension into the realm of a global power. In my opinion it is also a liability as such large populations are also subject to catastrophic events that more easily impact the entire society on a wide scale. Additionally, China's growth and power is dependent upon energy to fuel its cheap labor pool and provide for its society, a weakness we share with it.
On the other hand, during the same time China was cruising the seas with battle ships, the vast bulk of the Arab world was on horseback using flintlock weapons. Outside of their oil resources, the Arab world has few other resources the world needs and its growing population is highly dependent upon a single resource that is in demand today but will not last. When their primary asset is gone so will their ascension to anything greater.
The Arab world is divided into those who wish to return to AD 1000 and live in mud brick huts, praying that the old ways will never be forgotten, no matter how many of their fellow Muslims they have to slaughter to maintain this.
On the other hand there is that segment of the Arab world that is far more moderate, progressive, and secular that wishes to move into the 21st century and be seen like the rest of the modern world. Examples like Dubai, Beruit, Cairo, Istanbul, etc... The fact that radicalize and fundamentalist Islam has declared war on even these secular non-fundamentalist aspects of their own society will continue to prevent a greater expansion of the over all of the Islamic world. (NICE CONCLUSION. SO THAT IS HOW IT IS? NOTHING IN BETWEEN? JUST THESE TWO GROUPS? VERY TIDY.)
Now those in the Islamic world that have collected the vast wealth from the worlds most valuable asset, its oil, we have to ask how will they distribute this wealth to their society in order to progress the entire society? Even with these vasts sums of money, there has to be something else to invest in that will continue to bring income once the oil is gone. What will this source of income be? Will it remain concentrated into the hands of a few wealthy families? (YOU ARE MAKING A CONCLUSION THAT THE ARABS ARE NOT INVESTING? ONCE THE OIL IS GONE THAT'S IT?)
Ultimately, the Arab world as a whole is quite frankly light years behind the modernized world. While there may be blips of progress the society in its entirety wants to regress, not progress. Those that want to progress are greatly hindered by those that don't. They have to catch up to the western world before they can surpass it and in order to just catch up they will have to expend their only resource to do so.
The desire to be or do something is a far different world that fulfilling the desire. Not to mention that the Islamic world is also a victim of a geological twist of fate that once used will be gone forever, along with their influence in the greater world.
Bob, they are doing BOTH! They ARE buying big, fancy cars. They ARE building skyscraper after skyscraper and building "fake" islands in their ocean. They ARE building a place to go skining in the desert. BUT they are also sinking money into the radiacal Islamics also. The Middle East has more money than the Vatican! That used to be the richest "government" on earth.
I think it is also a problem that some refuse to open their eyes and see what is happening in the world. They refuse to believe that the radical fundamentalists of Islam want to take over the world. They continue to stick their heads in the sand and believe what? It (they) will just go away? Not going to happen I'm afraid.
The war on terror is real whether a person chooses to believe it or not. I think there has been no time in history since WWII that the life of every living human being has been at risk and as a whole we have become too complacent.
TAM
They are building these islands and skyscrapers and reselling them at a huge profit. I was involved as buyer inn the Plaza in NY that was bought by Alwaleed and resold as individual condos at a huge profit. They are not as stupid as some would like to think. As I posted earlier, the Europeans in general and the British in particular are their bankers and are buying up strategic assets.
It is not just radical islam, it is the Arab world. While the Arab community does not totally support terrorism, they don't exactly speak out against it all that much. Some go as far as just denying that Arabs have anything to do with any violence and that it is all made up.
What you will have a harder time finding is an Arab (or any ethnic group whether its Chinese, Arab, Irish, Italian, British) that thinks they as a people are culturally or genetically inferior to the West and that they will never have their turn at the front again. Each ethnic group wants their ethnic group to succeed. It is human nature.
What we are witnessing now are people from the West who were born into the front row who cannot believe anyone would dare to even think they could come up. As my British BIL would say "They don't know their place". Why would the British fear the Americans back in 1776? Why would we fear the Arab world in 2001?
Last edited by Bob The Builder; 05-21-2008 at 02:39 PM..
You might try to explain how my logic is flawed and my conclusions are wrong. Instead you chose to resort to ad homenin and assert that I am not intelligent enough to understand your position while at the same time claiming of all things that I suffer from narcissism? If you can't see the irony in that... I mean this is rich.
I will save you the trouble and won't discuss anything with you further since chances are you will likely end up telling me "neener neener", and if I wanted this level of "critical discussion" then I will seek out the nearest high school students dissertation on the nutritional benefits of a sack lunch.
Like I said. Your logic is flawed and your conclusions are unsupported.
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