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Originally Posted by axelthefox
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Bucha? Yeah, have heard and read about it. Specific details picked up that seem to be odd for an incident that's portrayed as a genuine massacre. Several include the high quality camera equipment used to film the incident, the fact the bodies haven't been relocated but are festering out on the street while vehicles are driving by, the lack of intense bodily destruction (blood, gore, things of that ill nature) due to what I would assume is heavy weapons fire, the peculiar white arm band accoutrements on some bodies usually associated with Russian sympathisers or troops, the lack of darkened red or brown blood patches which would be indicative of standard oxidisation of blood when exposed to air and the fact that discolouration of the body doesn't seem to be occurring in the lower extremities as would naturally occur due to the pull of gravity.
I have no doubt that at least some of the bodies are real but there's too much contradictory information to firmly lay this at the feet of the Russians. Not the least of which being that the Russians had purportedly disengaged from Bucha on the 30th (the Russians have been disengaging from the Kiev suburbs for some time as part of the negotiations and a massacre is counter intuitive to a peaceful resolution), the Mayor declared the town 'liberated' on the 31st, and the Azov group apparently entered the suburb on the 1st of April. This usurpation of humanitarian optics when the Ukrainians have been engaged in guerrilla tactics using civilians to demonise the Russians does not lend credibility. Besides which the Russians would only stand to be incriminated further if they underwent such activities. It doesn't benefit them in the least to commit intentional atrocities.
Your own article admits that the claims couldn't be independently verified. I don't doubt the possibilities of these people for anything when they have a guy like Yarosh as their top military adviser.
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Originally Posted by CrabJuiceVendor_
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All due respect, this gentleman sounds like a propagandist. Both sides are complicit in the activity but Ukrainians seem to really have cornered the market on it. For one thing, Russian speaking persons? Yeah, the troops in question are interacting with Russian POWs. The Ukrainians have lived as part of a broader Russian polity up until the 20th century (when it was a country and not just some vassal state). Existing historical persecutions and discrimination aside, their lexicons are still like 70% identical to one another. Unless the Ukrainian in question speaks a dialect from the western part of the country that's heavily influenced by Western Slavic languages like Polish, general comprehension of communication should be possible. Of course many if not the majority of Ukrainians at least understand and speak Russian even if it's not their native tongue so that's not surprising. I think the gentleman expects for the western audiences to not understand the backdrop of Russo-Ukrainian dynamics (not saying I do, I just try to research some things).
Ukraine inherited substantial Soviet military industries following the collapse of the Soviet Union. If I'm not mistaken a lot of their hardware stems from old Soviet models. Whatever they didn't covertly receive from NATO or the United States most likely is from the Russians or the industry they have in their own country.
By the way, no distinctive blood? The very clip he's showing is blurred out, oddly enough, and yet I can see blood spurting. I've watched the original clips. The soldiers were shot either in the foot, knee, or what looks like the groin area. Very graphic and unsettling. It's not disinformation. The handlers are wearing what seems to be different uniforms but with at least some donning the trademark blue arm band.
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Originally Posted by MikMal
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Please defer to the above explanation I provided that elaborates on the dubiety of the events in Bucha. I've been trying to find independent corroboration for Motizchin. So far nothing except what's coming out of the sources you mentioned. I had heard something about a mayor being kidnapped and killed. Although I believe the allegations there have to do with both a Russian perpetrated attack like the one you cited and a Ukrainian attack in the eastern city of Kreminna. I can't find full authentication but if the perpetrator is accurate and I don't doubt the probability of Russian war crimes in a conflict of this scale then they should be held accountable.
Child shields? What? How I've read it the Russians are engaged in a precision based campaign aimed at military installations and oil facilities. You can find accounts of children and civilians being used as human shields in places like Mariupol by the Azovs. Plenty of testimony there. The Russians have been seeking humanitarian corridors both to get the civilians out of the way and potentially compel would be defectors from the Ukrainian military to leave; not the Azov or other assorted ultranationalist groups though, mind you. I've also read allegations of the Russians stealing from civilians things like food and other assorted items. They have a logistics train that's being permitted to go through Belarus to the north. Now I've seen videos of people getting taped to poles for things as small as stealing food in Kiev; that's out there and can be watched.
About the Red Cross, Ukraine's head member of their health committee, Mikhail Radutsky, had previously made it clear that he did not want the Red Cross to open a facility in Rostov-on-Don or humanitarian corridors from Ukraine to Russia as it's perceived as a deportation of native Ukrainians according to them.
This is the apparent testimony of a survivor from the maternity hospital in Mariupol. If what she asserts is true then there's two different narratives being publicised here.
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