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Killing another human is not a medical decision, with the possible exception of an imminent threat to the mother's life in which it would be self-defense.
A fetus is neither a human, nor a non-human. By definition, it is very ambiguous, hence the unsolvable debate.
The government does not recognize them as a child. Ever try to claim a dependent fetus on your taxes?
I'm for a woman's choice, against abortion as a form of birth control, and I totally understand the position of sane pro-lifers. Nobody can claim to be right or wrong.
What I don't understand is why the pro-life people are not more adamant about things like:
- Forcing the father to be supportive of all costs starting at conception
- Providing health care for the people who are born
- Making sure the baby's born to parents who can't (or choose not to) feed their babies are fed
Both sides of the RvW issue make some level of sense to me. I don't understand how someone can be so cold as to force a woman to carry a child to birth, and then go out of their way to prevent that child from having a chance, when we, the richest nation on earth, have more than enough resources to look after our citizens.
A fetus is neither a human, nor a non-human. By definition, it is very ambiguous, hence the unsolvable debate.
A fetus is most definitely a human. If that were not true, fetal homicide laws would be invalid. No human victim = no homicide.
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The government does not recognize them as a child. Ever try to claim a dependent fetus on your taxes?
The government doesn't recognize illegal aliens as legal residents. It still isn't legal to kill one. The 50 found dead locked up in a trailer in TX? Their smugglers will be charged with homicide, even though the dead are not recognized as legal residents by the government.
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I'm for a woman's choice, against abortion as a form of birth control, and I totally understand the position of sane pro-lifers. Nobody can claim to be right or wrong.
What I don't understand is why the pro-life people are not more adamant about things like:
- Forcing the father to be supportive of all costs starting at conception
- Providing health care for the people who are born
- Making sure the baby's born to parents who can't (or choose not to) feed their babies are fed
- Many men are court-ordered to pay child support including prenatal care, delivery costs, etc.
- CHIP/Medicaid provides health care for those who cannot do so for themselves and their dependents.
- WIC and Food Stamps provides too much food for those who can't afford to feed themselves and their children. The demographic that has the highest obesity rate, by far, is Food Stamp recipients.
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Both sides of the RvW issue make some level of sense to me. I don't understand how someone can be so cold as to force a woman to carry a child to birth, and then go out of their way to prevent that child from having a chance, when we, the richest nation on earth, have more than enough resources to look after our citizens.
In the vast majority of cases (excluding the 0.3% of abortions due to rape) no one forced the woman to have sex. How is it that in this day and age so many people still don't know that male/female sex among fertile participants has a definite risk of a resultant pregnancy? Voluntary actions have consequences, no force involved
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
24,814 posts, read 13,203,748 times
Reputation: 10902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost
A fetus is neither a human, nor a non-human. By definition, it is very ambiguous, hence the unsolvable debate.
A human fetus has human DNA. A fetus is human while in the womb and does not magically become human upon its birth.
Quote:
The government does not recognize them as a child. Ever try to claim a dependent fetus on your taxes?
I'm for a woman's choice, against abortion as a form of birth control, and I totally understand the position of sane pro-lifers. Nobody can claim to be right or wrong.
What I don't understand is why the pro-life people are not more adamant about things like:
- Forcing the father to be supportive of all costs starting at conception
- Providing health care for the people who are born
- Making sure the baby's born to parents who can't (or choose not to) feed their babies are fed
Both sides of the RvW issue make some level of sense to me. I don't understand how someone can be so cold as to force a woman to carry a child to birth, and then go out of their way to prevent that child from having a chance, when we, the richest nation on earth, have more than enough resources to look after our citizens.
I don't see how someone can be so cold as to want the death of innocent humans.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,968 posts, read 25,591,706 times
Reputation: 12193
The main legal challenge to state laws banning early abortion and even birth control will be religious freedom. Pro Life movement totally accepts the Catholic Church view that human life begins at conception and even birth control is sinfuls. Protestants generally are for birth control and non Christian groups have different views on when a fetus becomes human: 120 days for Muslims and 40+ days varying by Jewish group. Banning a Muslim or Jew from getting an early term abortion violates their freedom of religion as it forces them to adhere to a Catholic belief they don't share.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,968 posts, read 25,591,706 times
Reputation: 12193
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
A human fetus has human DNA. A fetus is human while in the womb and does not magically become human upon its birth.
.
Theological debate. Christians and most Buddhist believe a fetus is human at conception, Jews and Muslims do not. Sperm cells have human DNA, maybe we should also ban masterbation.
No, that's not how biology works. It would be described as a human fetus.... it's always human.
You probably mean to say it's not a person.... and you'd be wrong about that too because the law disagrees there.
So take your pick as to which specific reason you're wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
A fetus IS a human. It's a stage of human life just like infant, toddler, teenager, adult, geriatric, etc. Fetal homicide laws would be void if a fetus wasn't human. No human victim = no homicide.
Laws are written to define things in a certain way for the purposes of the law. Those definitions are not applicable to non-law situations.
The main legal challenge to state laws banning early abortion and even birth control will be religious freedom. Pro Life movement totally accepts the Catholic Church view that human life begins at conception and even birth control is sinfuls. Protestants generally are for birth control and non Christian groups have different views on when a fetus becomes human: 120 days for Muslims and 40+ days varying by Jewish group. Banning a Muslim or Jew from getting an early term abortion violates their freedom of religion as it forces them to adhere to a Catholic belief they don't share.
Irrelevant in the face of the fact that killing a fetus has already been legally recognized as felony homicide. Fathers have killed their pre-born offspring under similar circumstances and have gone to prison for doing so.
Laws are written to define things in a certain way for the purposes of the law. Those definitions are not applicable to non-law situations.
How are laws regulating abortion not law?
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