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^Thanks for sharing that experience. Someone will surely race in here, face scrunched up and purple, screaming, "no anecdotes!" but these stories reflect reality.
My neighbor's daughter adopted a baby girl some years ago. Born prematurely, mother an addict. Kid is thriving but has some learning and vision issues.
My neighbor was telling me about the birth mother. She said if I went down to a nearby town that has a "wrong side of the tracks", I'd probably see her. She is a diabetic who had one leg amputated because if diabetes, but she works as a prostitute. She keeps getting pregnant and having babies and says she will "until they let me keep one". Which will be never.
Yet some people think that if they just sat down and explained to her that she should just not have sex or use birth control, voila!, all would be well!
I forgot to say in my post above that my experiences took place in the early 70's. There was not the drug problem that there is today. The children I worked with were removed from their homes mostly due to neglect not physical abuse. Due to improper care, not enough food, parents going off drinking and leaving the kids unsupervised. I never saw the types of physical abuse that you see today.
The situation is much worse today due to the number of children being born to addicted mothers. As one caseworker. told me" nobody wants to adopt a crack baby".
Which came first the fruit or the seed? The seed gets planted and growth, depending on the soil, begins --- I thought that signified life. You know the growing part, which begins before the fruit the plant produces.
If life doesn't begin until after the fruit is produced; then when is the beginning of life?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchz
First- we are not plants. Babies are not fruit.
Babies come to life when they take their first breath on their own. Independently.
So plants are not representative of life on earth --- ? Babies are (in the animal kingdom) fruit of the seed that was planted in a woman's womb; a homo sapiens, offspring. Without the seed (growth and maturity) to produce yet another seed, eventually life (for both plant and animal) ceases to exist.
If life doesn't begin until after the fruit is produced; then when is the beginning of life?
I forgot to say in my post above that my experiences took place in the early 70's. There was not the drug problem that there is today. The children I worked with were removed from their homes mostly due to neglect not physical abuse. Due to improper care, not enough food, parents going off drinking and leaving the kids unsupervised. I never saw the types of physical abuse that you see today.
The situation is much worse today due to the number of children being born to addicted mothers. As one caseworker. told me" nobody wants to adopt a crack baby".
Total Fertility Rate in 1970 was 2.5%. I honestly thought it would be higher than that since contraceptive use and sterilization is indicative of fertility in women. It takes a fertility rate of 2.1 to replace a society and today the u.s. is at the lowest rate at 1.64, ever in the history of the u.s. 1.64% is the percentage of women getting pregnant. Some of those women will opt for an abortion; some will give birth only to loose child sometime after, but before their age to reproduce.
imo, the lack of economic independence and human rights produced by the government's inability to manage, is the root cause of both, addiction to drugs and the stagnate population growth. Humans will find their coping mechanisms within their society.
and there will be some that want to ban abortion entirely:
1. Who will pay for prenatal care if the mother can't afford it? (For example, Texas leads the nation in teen pregnancies.)
2. How will states deal with an increase in babies the parents can't afford? How will social programs to feed these babies be expanded?
3. Will state-funded DNA testing be automatically enacted to confirm paternity? How will paternity tests be bodily forced upon accused fathers?
4. Will stiffer penalties, including prison, be enforced against fathers who refuse to pay child support? Will the mothers be represented pro bono if they can't afford attorneys to ensure this happens?
5. Will rape charges be brought by the state if the girl is underage and the man isn't?
In light of any of these, do you believe the better solution is to just kill a baby?
Not correct at all, a fetus is considered a baby - a fetus is from about 8-10 weeks till birth. A baby can survive outside the womb after about week 23 /24.
Okay then lets do this at what week do you think most abortions are done? Im pretty sure they are majority wise done before 10 weeks. So there ya go they are not a baby yet.
A baby can survive sometimes not always and not without medical help to do so. Premature babies need assistance to survive and have a chance at a healthy life.
Again I will give on it taking the whole nine months for baby to be able to live on its own - I will say 6 months if you want BUT it is very rare before this time. So therefore any fetus or baby if you want can not live without the mother - they come to life when they take their first breath on their own. This is why it should remain between the mother and her doctor not politicians of your State. I mean really do you think that men should have the right to make laws about giving birth or not - when they have never done so? I know that women are politicians too but any man thinking he knows or should be able to tell a woman what she can nor cant do is wrong. Period.
I signed a petition last night while out to get the law in Arizona changed and to have it on the November ballot. I will be finding out how I can help/volunteer with this process. My S.O. thinks I am crazy and that if I participate that I might get assaulted by someone as this seems so heated for some. Doing this at least makes me feel better than just watching this happen.
Earlier in life I was a foster care caseworker. It was not unusual to have 5-10 children from one mother scattered about in several foster homes.
The average person has no idea of some of the situations out there.
One case involved a low IQ mother whose situation ran me ragged before her 8 children ended up in foster care. She conceived her youngest child while on her way to the 7-11 to buy a quart of milk. Then there was the daughter that she named the same name as another daughter as she couldn't think of different name.
I arranged for her to have her tubes tied but she changed her mind at the last minute after someone told her that this procedure would change her "nature".
I then signed her up for the Depo-Provera shot which was new and had the side effect of infertility. I drove her to the clinic every 3 months to get that shot despite her telling me that she didn't need it because she was " done with men, they don't treat you right. ". Well, no sh**. 8 kids, who knows how many fathers. Where do you think those 8 kids are today. What kind of lives do you think they are living?
I don't know where they all ended up as I got married and left the agency. If she had gotten pregnant again and wanted an abortion it blows my mind to think that some would deny her this right.
Her situation was not that unusual in my caseload. I had 75 foster children and 15 homes in my caseload. Needless to say, I was never on top of anything and spent a good portion of my time in juvenile court with one crisis after another.
Okay then lets do this at what week do you think most abortions are done? Im pretty sure they are majority wise done before 10 weeks. So there ya go they are not a baby yet.
A baby can survive sometimes not always and not without medical help to do so. Premature babies need assistance to survive and have a chance at a healthy life.
Again I will give on it taking the whole nine months for baby to be able to live on its own - I will say 6 months if you want BUT it is very rare before this time. So therefore any fetus or baby if you want can not live without the mother - they come to life when they take their first breath on their own. This is why it should remain between the mother and her doctor not politicians of your State. I mean really do you think that men should have the right to make laws about giving birth or not - when they have never done so? I know that women are politicians too but any man thinking he knows or should be able to tell a woman what she can nor cant do is wrong. Period.
I signed a petition last night while out to get the law in Arizona changed and to have it on the November ballot. I will be finding out how I can help/volunteer with this process. My S.O. thinks I am crazy and that if I participate that I might get assaulted by someone as this seems so heated for some. Doing this at least makes me feel better than just watching this happen.
This is not a game of gotcha - terms matter. From conception, life begins and it is correct to call it a baby - whether zygote, embryo or fetus. It is not ok to try and justify abortion by pointing to where it is in development, a baby is just as dead if aborted at 6 weeks or 6 months. It is also not about surviving without medical assistance - babies that are a fetus have developed to the point of a heartbeat and can react to stimulus - premature babies can and do survive all the time without medical assistance.
Own up to it, an abortion is the legal killing of a baby - that is the reality. Abortion should be a rare event, and should not be used in place of or instead of or as a form of contraception prevention/protection - it should be because of rape, medical necessity or for the rare contraception protection failure. It is better if it is done as early as possible, limiting it to early development such as first Trimester or first 12 weeks is appropriate. Being able to breathe independently or not should have no bearing on the decision, only whether the mother is at risk when it is that late in the development cycle.
A baby is made by 2 people yet you want the decision to not involve the father but rather a doctor - why does only one parent get a voice? It takes two to tango and the decision should involve both involved. Period.
Why should any law that involves both sexes be voted on by one side only might as well argue that all laws about drug use be voted on only by drug users. Also, it is not about what you feel but about what are the rights. In this case - the SCOTUS didn't ban abortion, they simply said, it was a states rights issue that had no basis for support in the constitution.
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