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Leftist: supporting left-leaning ideologies such as a large and powerful central government, punitive taxes on the wealthy, limited speech, and the racism of condescension.
Liberal: supporting small and limited government, "fair" taxation, free speech, and the belief that success has little to do with skin color.
Modern Democrats are leftists. They are not liberals. Nor are they "progressive" in any true meaning of the word, as most of their policies impede progress.
Thank you for replying. I think your definitions are very limited, as you try to put those who disagree with you into smaller and smaller boxes. I do not know anyone who would fit in any of the 3 boxes you define. Most people have more varied opinions on these topics.
BTW I always thought small and limited govt was a conservative trait.
As a former Democrat and Liberal, I remember when Liberals were against certain things.
Liberals were against the Government using its agencies to spy on its citizens. That's why we had a major issue with Bush.
Liberals were against the Government using its agencies to go after its political opponents.
Liberals were against the Government trying to control the news flow and the flow of information.
Liberals were against the Government using its power to try to control what people can and cannot say or hear.
Why has the left abandoned what they once stood for?
Why is the left now supporting and/or defending the very things they once stood against?
When was the turning point?
Why did they change?
What is their end goal?
How come they cannot see the danger in what they are supporting?
You're conflating two different sets of values. Liberals still believe in those things, but they vote for Leftists because they don't realize what they're doing. Leftists are... Leftists. They don't believe in those things. They believe in acquiring power, by any means necessary.
Thank you for replying. I think your definitions are very limited, as you try to put those who disagree with you into smaller and smaller boxes. I do not know anyone who would fit in any of the 3 boxes you define. Most people have more varied opinions on these topics.
If you vote Democrat, you support leftist policies - whether you agree with those policies or not. Therefore, Democrats are leftists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansible90
BTW I always thought small and limited govt was a conservative trait.
Small and limited government is the hallmark of the traditional liberal. But yes, liberalism (actual liberalism, not the bastard stepchild of the modern Democrat party) is very closely related to conservativism. Both support individual liberty over a large government, both support free enterprise, and both support free speech.
The dem party is certainly not the party it was when I was a kid. It has been hijacked by radical far leftists. The "Weather Underground" types have consumed the party.
Bill Ayers, Frank Marshal Davis, Reverand Wright, Van Jones, John Brennan, All Obama's Marxist and Communist friends. Let's not forget Obamas secret meetings with the White hating Louis Farrakhan, and the Muslim Brotherhood
You're conflating two different sets of values. Liberals still believe in those things, but they vote for Leftists because they don't realize what they're doing. Leftists are... Leftists. They don't believe in those things. They believe in acquiring power, by any means necessary.
Yep, Lois Lerner, Strzok, Page, Leftist and True Believers have infiltrated all areas of Government.
You're conflating two different sets of values. Liberals still believe in those things, but they vote for Leftists because they don't realize what they're doing. Leftists are... Leftists. They don't believe in those things. They believe in acquiring power, by any means necessary.
While that may be true, IMO if you keep voting for people who are doing what they are doing right in front of your face, you support them and are now part of them.
If you vote Democrat, you support leftist policies - whether you agree with those policies or not. Therefore, Democrats are leftists.
Voting for a candidate with a D next to their name does not make you "a Democrat".
I'm a liberal and I almost always vote Democratic (not always), and I don't consider myself woke, progressive, or leftist.
Even when some of the Dems are focusing on identity politics and silly crap, they're still better than the Republicans on the issues that I care about. The Republicans could win my vote if they'd be more like libertarians who want a secular, referee type government that leaves everyone (and their bodies, and vices) alone, instead of these traditionalist holy warrior, extreme gun nut, anti-democracy, anti-immigrant, science-deniers who want to ruin the planet in the name of the oil industry.
And the one thing they're supposed to be good at (small government and balanced budget)- they usually suck way worse than the Democrats at that, too. The D's are the small gov party. George Bush cost us taxpayers trillions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and deregulated us into a financial crisis and recession.
I'm no leftist. The right just sucks, and refuses at every turn to earn my support. Then cries about it.
Voting for a candidate with a D next to their name does not make you "a Democrat".
I'm a liberal and I almost always vote Democratic (not always), and I don't consider myself woke, progressive, or leftist.
Even when some of the Dems are focusing on identity politics and silly crap, they're still better than the Republicans on the issues that I care about. The Republicans could win my vote if they'd be more like libertarians who want a secular, referee type government that leaves everyone (and their bodies, and vices) alone, instead of these traditionalist holy warrior, extreme gun nut, anti-democracy, anti-immigrant, science-deniers who want to ruin the planet in the name of the oil industry.
And the one thing they're supposed to be good at (small government and balanced budget)- they usually suck way worse than the Democrats at that, too. The D's are the small gov party. George Bush cost us taxpayers trillions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and deregulated us into a financial crisis and recession.
I'm no leftist. The right just sucks, and refuses at every turn to earn my support. Then cries about it.
While that may be true, IMO if you keep voting for people who are doing what they are doing right in front of your face, you support them and are now part of them.
How do people vote for a political party that calls pretty much anything they don't like "hate speech"?
I wish a Democrat voter can explain that to me. Do you basically agree that anything Republicans say is hate speech?
If you vote Democrat, you support leftist policies - whether you agree with those policies or not. Therefore, Democrats are leftists.
Small and limited government is the hallmark of the traditional liberal. But yes, liberalism (actual liberalism, not the bastard stepchild of the modern Democrat party) is very closely related to conservativism. Both support individual liberty over a large government, both support free enterprise, and both support free speech.
A lot of people who voted Democrat in the last presidential election did not support the Dem platform, per se. They were voting not-Trump. I don't know how you classify those people.
People have all kinds of reasons for who they vote for in federal, state and local elections. Many split the ticket and pick the best person (the person they like best) in each position. They do not fit in your little boxes. You seem to assume an all or nothing stance. I think most people are more nuanced than that. For example, many so-called blue states repeatedly elect a Republican governor. They don't fit your little boxes.
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