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Legal marriage has always been about monetary, custody, and spousal benefits... totally separated from religious concepts.
Let's put aside the complexity of having multiple spouses aside for a moment. Same-sex couples whose marriage is not recognized in the state they currently reside in have to work around the legal marriage law (lack thereof in their case) to maintain legal authority over their partner through Power of Attorney (in the event the partner is no longer able to make such decisions). A power granted through written authorization rather than through spousal benefit.
Now mix in multiple spouses into the mix.... it becomes messy.
I am in the camp that believes that marriage shouldn't be written into law... Actual coupling should be a private matter outside government oversight. There should be a fair and simple way to handle inheritance government benefits, taxes, family level, medical insurance, decision power, and asset distribution without requiring the named person to be my spouse. If my actual spouse is present and they aren't my named person for these affairs, that's pretty awful but still a private matter outside government's view.
How would you do that. Isnt that why same sex couples pushed for legal marriage. On would have to have an iron clad contracts which is going to involve attorneys and courts and $$$. Even pre-nups dont always hold up in court. Can you even imaging the government trying to keep up with social security, disability, veterans, SSI, etc. benefits without a default spouse or child heir. One would be spending a lot of time in the court room.
How would you do that. Isnt that why same sex couples pushed for legal marriage. On would have to have an iron clad contracts which is going to involve attorneys and courts and $$$. Even pre-nups dont always hold up in court. Can you even imaging the government trying to keep up with social security, disability, veterans, SSI, etc. benefits without a default spouse or child heir. One would be spending a lot of time in the court room.
I don't see any of what you list as challenges that are solved by the concept of matrimony. They are issues even among married couples. So it would be no different if marriage concepts were completely removed from law. Same-sex couples push for legal marriage as a means to adapt current laws originally written on the predicate that a marriage is between a woman and a man. Pre-nups only exist because we have concepts of legal marriage written into law and one is attempting to overrule them. I should be able to name anyone to be the beneficiary of those affairs without having to be married.
I don't see any of what you list as challenges that are solved by the concept of matrimony. They are issues even among married couples. So it would be no different if marriage concepts were completely removed from law. Same-sex couples push for legal marriage as a means to adapt current laws originally written on the predicate that a marriage is between a woman and a man. Pre-nups only exist because we have concepts of legal marriage written into law and one is attempting to overrule them. I should be able to name anyone to be the beneficiary of those affairs without having to be married.
Inheritance. If you are married your spouse inherits by default, otherwise you must have an up to date will.
Default survivors benefits. How do you propose one gets the SS, SSI, Veterans benefits of a dead roommate?
How do you get tax breaks by having a roommate.
One can not cover another who is not a child or spouse on their medical insurance.
How do make medical decisions without power of attorney
You would have to go before a court and fight for assests.
How do you name anyone to those benefits? Legal contracts.
I dont see the federal government doing millions of legal contrats that may change many times during a persons lifetime.
Inheritance. If you are married your spouse inherits by default, otherwise you must have an up to date will.
Default survivors benefits. How do you propose one gets the SS, SSI, Veterans benefits of a dead roommate?
How do you get tax breaks by having a roommate.
One can not cover another who is not a child or spouse on their medical insurance.
How do make medical decisions without power of attorney
You would have to go before a court and fight for assests.
How do you name anyone to those benefits? Legal contracts.
I dont see the federal government doing millions of legal contrats that may change many times during a persons lifetime.
There is no reason that any of that has to be tied to a legally named spouse. It is simply put lazy law to assume a default of a legal spouse. The whole same sex marriage issue wouldn't even be an issue.... they would simply name their same-sex partner as the beneficiary of those affairs. Similarly religiously married couples would name their wife/husband as the beneficiary of those affairs.
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How do you name anyone to those benefits? Legal contracts.
Legal marriage IS already a Legal Contract. No reason that the legal contract has to be tied to a legal marriage.
There is no reason that any of that has to be tied to a legally named spouse. It is simply put lazy law to assume a default of a legal spouse. The whole same sex marriage issue wouldn't even be an issue.... they would simply name their same-sex partner as the beneficiary of those affairs. Similarly religiously married couples would name their wife/husband as the beneficiary of those affairs.
Legal marriage IS already a Legal Contract. No reason that the legal contract has to be tied to a legal marriage.
You keep saying there is no reason but you have yet to give examples of how any of that would work?
If I am living with my boyfriend and he is in an accident and a medical decision needs to be made what is the easy simple solution for me to legally make that decision.
If my employer does not offer health insurance, what is the easy simple solution for him to add me to his policy. Should those under a group policy just be able to add whomever they please.
If my live in partner dies without a will how do I legally transfer his car/house to my name, etc.
How do I get his SS benefits?
How do you claim a deduction on your income tax return with a random person?
I am saying without marriage one would have to draw up a legal contract for each benefits.
You keep saying there is no reason but you have yet to give examples of how any of that would work?
If I am living with my boyfriend and he is in an accident and a medical decision needs to be made what is the easy simple solution for me to legally make that decision.
If my employer does not offer health insurance, what is the easy simple solution for him to add me to his policy. Should those under a group policy just be able to add whomever they please.
If my live in partner dies without a will how do I legally transfer his car/house to my name, etc.
How do I get his SS benefits?
How do you claim a deduction on your income tax return with a random person?
I am saying without marriage one would have to draw up a legal contract for each benefits.
You don't have medical decision authority over your boyfriend... unless there is common law marriage or legal marriage involved. So I'm not sure it is relevant here.
Employer health policies are private institutions. Employers can set whatever requirements they wish within regulations. Mine I do not need to be legally married to declare 1 person as a spouse on my policy. I also have the option to declare anyone I wish on my policy. There is no need to be within the family or blood relatives. The limitation is that they are under the age of 26 and I have to prove that I'm financially supporting them.
The rest you would just name a person to be the beneficiary of your affairs. There is no reason to be a legal marriage. Something already exists that is similar; domestic partnership. Naming someone as the beneficiary of your affairs is similar to a domestic partnership. No legal marriage. A divorce is not required to end a domestic partnership. The issue is that at the federal level domestic partnerships do not fully cover the benefits of a legal marriage. For starters, a domestic partnership (unless changed and I don't know about it) cannot file jointly for federal taxation purposes.
Marriage is already a legal contract. Similar to what exists for domestic partnership. It is certainly possible to remove all concepts of legal marriage from law and bring domestic partnership to cover similar benefits to that of legal marriage and maintain that a domestic partnership can be ended at anytime without a divorce.
Again... For many you are listing there is no real logical reason that a legal marriage is involved. ... Legal marriage in this cases is simply a "default".
But doesn't God believe that heterosexuals can naturally and lovingly indulge in all the anal and oral sodomy they want to with the opposite sex without it being a sin before Him? And that Satan has nothing to do with encouraging that kind of sex between heterosexuals.
If you are a heterosexual man that wants to engage in anal you aren’t really heterosexual. The anus is meant for expelling human waste.
You don't have medical decision authority over your boyfriend... unless there is common law marriage or legal marriage involved. So I'm not sure it is relevant here.
It is exactly the point. If you are not married the person you are living with is just your boyfriend/girlfriend. If you are married you have default decision making authority.
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Originally Posted by usayit
Employer health policies are private institutions. Employers can set whatever requirements they wish within regulations. Mine I do not need to be legally married to declare 1 person as a spouse on my policy. I also have the option to declare anyone I wish on my policy. There is no need to be within the family or blood relatives. The limitation is that they are under the age of 26 and I have to prove that I'm financially supporting them.
Some employers in some states in agreement with some providers can go by allowances put in place for domestic partners as was the case before same sex legal unions. Not all states, not all employers and not all providers do this or will be willing to. I dont think it is even the common. You would essentially need to go to universal health care or federally controlled health care. This is a benefit some employers provide for their employees, and it is a significant expense for employers. I don't see this working with multiple spouses and I seriously doubt one person is going to be supporting 3 or 4 adults plus however many children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
The rest you would just name a person to be the beneficiary of your affairs. There is no reason to be a legal marriage. Something already exists that is similar; domestic partnership. Naming someone as the beneficiary of your affairs is similar to a domestic partnership. No legal marriage. A divorce is not required to end a domestic partnership. The issue is that at the federal level domestic partnerships do not fully cover the benefits of a legal marriage. For starters, a domestic partnership (unless changed and I don't know about it) cannot file jointly for federal taxation purposes.
Marriage is already a legal contract. Similar to what exists for domestic partnership. It is certainly possible to remove all concepts of legal marriage from law and bring domestic partnership to cover similar benefits to that of legal marriage and maintain that a domestic partnership can be ended at anytime without a divorce.
Again... For many you are listing there is no real logical reason that a legal marriage is involved. ... Legal marriage in this cases is simply a "default".
These things are not set up to name a beneficiary except for a life insurance policy. Domestic partnerships don't allow for multiple spouses. It is also dependent on the state law. It would have to become a federal law and existing laws be overturned. This still doesnt address multiple spouses.
Yes marriage is a legal contract. ONE that covers all these things.
Fist you are going to have to take away several issues that are now individual states rights. That will take a vote of SCOTUS. You will also have to have all healthcare federalized. And nothing is going to cover all marriage benefits. The average marriage last 8 years, apparently, while the average cohabitation last 1-2 years. Add 2, 3, 4 additional adults and a bunch of kid.
Maybe just accept that we are not entitled to everything we want. Want to live a polygamous life, you want to live as domestic partners, you are free to do so, but that does not entitle you to marriage benefits. Want marriage benefits, get married. They are benefits, not rights.
But doesn't God believe that heterosexuals can naturally and lovingly indulge in all the anal and oral sodomy they want to with the opposite sex without it being a sin before Him? And that Satan has nothing to do with encouraging that kind of sex between heterosexuals.
Everything that has to do with the flesh is sin… whether you steal a pencil at work or cheat on the Mrs. Etc… only thing separating the godly with the ungodly -is the true acceptance of Jesus. Then the process begins to try to do right in all areas of our lives. Simple.
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