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Old 04-17-2024, 10:42 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,135 posts, read 4,624,261 times
Reputation: 10602

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
Johns Hopkins.

The original article has been removed but here's an archive link: https://archive.ph/aMw5d
Interesting- thank you.

 
Old 04-18-2024, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,133 posts, read 41,343,367 times
Reputation: 45231
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
Doctors kill 5x as many people as are killed with guns every year, including suicides. Nobody cares. I think that what we saw in 2020 proves that the medical industry is WAY too corrupt and WAY too deep in bed with the government to ever see anything happen wrt the systemic issues found within it.
Doctors do not kill 250,000 people per year. That figure was derived from an article (not an original study) that used faulty assumptions and poor statistical analysis to extrapolate from what was essentially a tiny mostly Medicare population to the entire country.

https://www.puffnstuff.com.au/no-med...s-deaths/70045

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/medical-errors-2020/

https://qualitysafety.bmj.com/content/26/5/423
 
Old 04-18-2024, 12:40 AM
 
19,874 posts, read 18,158,213 times
Reputation: 17327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
Interesting- thank you.
Interesting but colossally incorrect.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/917696?form=fpf
 
Old 04-18-2024, 12:53 AM
 
19,874 posts, read 18,158,213 times
Reputation: 17327
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
The Duntsch case got a lot of play here in Texas. Unfortunately, there is little recourse for the injured patients since Texas legislated tort reform in 2003 that caps non-economic damages for medical malpractice at $250,000(not indexed for inflation), while wrongful death damages are limited to $2,000,000. This means that attorneys will not take malpractice cases because there is no money to be made, or even cover expenses. Duntsch was allowed to resign from hospitals as they tried to avoid having to deal with him and to keep things quiet, and the hospitals never turned him in to State medical authorities that could revoke his medical license.

The only way hospitals and doctors will do the right thing is if they get hit with a $50 million judgement for being negligent.
Over recent years Texas has been the #2 state in terms of malpractice lawsuits rendering much of your paragraph woefully off base.

Two neurosurgeons, don't recall their names, neither of whom was sued at all much less for $50MM, were key in seeing Duntsch's credentials pulled.
 
Old 04-18-2024, 04:40 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,861 posts, read 24,142,266 times
Reputation: 15143
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Doctors do not kill 250,000 people per year. That figure was derived from an article (not an original study) that used faulty assumptions and poor statistical analysis to extrapolate from what was essentially a tiny mostly Medicare population to the entire country.

https://www.puffnstuff.com.au/no-med...s-deaths/70045

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/medical-errors-2020/

https://qualitysafety.bmj.com/content/26/5/423
And yet, Johns Hopkins said it was so.

You didn't have to go looking for things which say it's not valid. You could've just read the link I posted. They list the caveats. LOL

Pro tip: You can find something that says whatever you want on the internet so posting links doesn't impress me. Demonstrating knowledge does.
 
Old 04-18-2024, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,861 posts, read 24,142,266 times
Reputation: 15143
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Interesting but colossally incorrect.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/917696?form=fpf
Thanks for posting that. It proves that this has been a known problem for a lot longer than I'd thought.

"Popular estimates of medical harm have faced criticism since the National Academy of Medicine's seminal 1999 "To Err Is Human" report, which estimated the number of preventable medical error deaths at around 44,000-98,000 per year. Two powerful critiques of this report were published in JAMA shortly afterward..."

Now we have the National Academy of Medicine in 1999 and Johns Hopkins in 2016, each saying that doctors kill ~50k-250k per year.

Who's disputing it? Doctors. "I didn't do it" isn't good enough in a courtroom and it's not good enough for me, either.

Of course doctors don't want any more scrutiny. Their job is tough enough and carries enough liability as it is. I get it... doesn't change the conclusions of now TWO studies on the topic.

Since you're so interested in this statistic and are so sure that Johns Hopkins and NAM are wrong, what should the correct number be, EDS?
 
Old 04-18-2024, 05:25 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,135 posts, read 4,624,261 times
Reputation: 10602
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Interesting but colossally incorrect.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/917696?form=fpf
Your link is interesting too. These are the sorts of issues trial lawyers debate back and forth with conflicting evidence. Even if the first study is erroneous in its analysis, regardless, one of the best outcomes of this being in the public forefront is a quote from your link.

Patient safety is emerging as both an academic discipline and an activist movement, two developments we strongly support.
 
Old 04-18-2024, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,133 posts, read 41,343,367 times
Reputation: 45231
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
And yet, Johns Hopkins said it was so.

You didn't have to go looking for things which say it's not valid. You could've just read the link I posted. They list the caveats. LOL

Pro tip: You can find something that says whatever you want on the internet so posting links doesn't impress me. Demonstrating knowledge does.
Criticism of the conclusion that hundreds of thousands of people die annually from medical errors in the US comes from three continents.

The number was generated from a sum total of about 14 deaths and applied to all hospitalizations, including those for normal childbirth. It is not valid.

Why is your link the truth and mine are not?
 
Old 04-18-2024, 11:14 AM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,877 posts, read 6,577,232 times
Reputation: 13372
Yes, bad actors are dangerous in many professions involving human health and safety. Even with safeguards, human nature makes them difficult to stop. Perhaps AI will improve matters?

I thought one of the biggest safety innovations was the surgical safety checklist, modeled after the pilot checklist used by airlines.

Where Surgeons Don’t Bother With Checklists

Have medical lawsuits done anything besides increase patient costs?
 
Old 04-18-2024, 12:08 PM
 
19,874 posts, read 18,158,213 times
Reputation: 17327
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
Thanks for posting that. It proves that this has been a known problem for a lot longer than I'd thought.

"Popular estimates of medical harm have faced criticism since the National Academy of Medicine's seminal 1999 "To Err Is Human" report, which estimated the number of preventable medical error deaths at around 44,000-98,000 per year. Two powerful critiques of this report were published in JAMA shortly afterward..."

Now we have the National Academy of Medicine in 1999 and Johns Hopkins in 2016, each saying that doctors kill ~50k-250k per year.

Who's disputing it? Doctors. "I didn't do it" isn't good enough in a courtroom and it's not good enough for me, either.

Of course doctors don't want any more scrutiny. Their job is tough enough and carries enough liability as it is. I get it... doesn't change the conclusions of now TWO studies on the topic.

Since you're so interested in this statistic and are so sure that Johns Hopkins and NAM are wrong, what should the correct number be, EDS?
No idea. But the JH linked numbers don’t even make sense.
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