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All this immorality is a natural result of the Protestant belief of salvation by faith and to a lesser extent belief in predestination, both beliefs being reversions by the Germanic peoples to pre Christian Pagan beliefs in the guise of "reformed" Christianity.
If all a person need do to gain salvation is have faith then anything they do can be justified. Now the chickens come home to roost.
All this immorality is a natural result of the Protestant belief of salvation by faith and to a lesser extent belief in predestination, both beliefs being reversions by the Germanic peoples to pre Christian Pagan beliefs in the guise of "reformed" Christianity.
If all a person need do to gain salvation is have faith then anything they do can be justified. Now the chickens come home to roost.
Interesting. Are you claiming the need for an intercessor on your behalf to communicate with God? Dude, you really are Irish!
At any rate, we must take our walk in the best way we know how, whether that is of the Protestant variety, the Catholic, the Jewish, the Muslim, the Buddhist, etc. I think we often forget that God, at least as I know him, wants our love and fellowship through our own free will, not because its legislated or we fear societal reprisal. My two cents.
I think we often forget that God, at least as I know him, wants our love and fellowship through our own free will, not because its legislated or we fear societal reprisal. My two cents.
I don't know what God wants or even that he exists. What I'm saying is that a religion that doesn't require morality for salvation will turn out large numbers of people with no morality.
Never mind societal reprisal, a believer in salvation by faith needn't fear reprisal from God and may then act accordingly.
I don't know what God wants or even that he exists. What I'm saying is that a religion that doesn't require morality for salvation will turn out large numbers of people with no morality.
Never mind societal reprisal, a believer in salvation by faith needn't fear reprisal from God and may then act accordingly.
How so? If you have faith that God loves you, you accept him and and earnestly attempt to walk a righteous path, how does this in any way contribute to moral decay? Morality is between you and God and not what anyone else thinks. I think your view is that religion is valuable as a tool of social control. I don't.
How so? If you have faith that God loves you, you accept him and and earnestly attempt to walk a righteous path, how does this in any way contribute to moral decay?
That's a big if. In faith alone salvation the righteous path is an option not a requisite. People of good character will choose it of course but others will take solace in their supposed salvation and then go out and raise Hell.
I most certainly do think religion is a tool of social control, yes sir. One that is breaking down and in the case of Protestantism largely because of it's internal contradictions.
That's a big if. In faith alone salvation the righteous path is an option not a requisite. People of good character will choose it of course but others will take solace in their supposed salvation and then go out and raise Hell.
I most certainly do think religion is a tool of social control, yes sir. One that is breaking down and in the case of Protestantism largely because of it's internal contradictions.
Then what do you care? If those people aren't assured salvation then it doesn't concern you. And I most certainly agree that religion is a form of social control. However, I find it disingenous when a person such as your self questions anothers salvation. Perhaps you have the ability to accurately diagnose the state of Protestantism today, but you also have no grounds to declare who is worthy of salvation and who is not.
Immorality on the rise since the 1950's? Are you serious..
What about the segregation and the how women where still restricted from having full opinions in those times?
Placing the reality in the backyards of caucasian suburbanites might have awoken them in the 1950's
At least now we have religious freedom, and racism is not as strong as it was 50 years ago, and women can actually voice themselves. If people do not want to worship a "diety" that no one can 100% confirm off. How can you blame immorality for the falsehood that has been spread into mainstream culture.
All of this election talk has had me thinking about past elections where evangelical Christians made a significant jump to the pro-Holy, pro-life, anti-gay republicans, hoping that we would return to the "morally upright" ways of the 1950s. But despite voting for these "moral figures," the last eight years have been the biggest spiral to immorality that I have ever seen.
-Children are becoming more physically aggressive and uncontrollable
-Teens are becoming more sexually promiscuous (and not with adults much older than them)
-Those who promote immorality (esp. rappers, has-been stars, heiress celebrities) are worshiped to the extreme
-Gay marriage and relations has flourished in the media and is legal in some states
-Abortion has become seen no different than getting one's tonsils removed.
-The nuclear family is falling apart at a catastrophic rate w/ adultery and divorce
-Money and possessions is now the determinant of one's importance, character, and self-worth
-Hedonism is now seen as an excusable reason for one's negative actions
So religious republicans, all I have to ask you is this: What has the religious right really done to make this country more moral now than it was eight years ago?
P.S.: In addition, in the midst of this presidential election, where are all of you in general this year? I'm hearing from the working class, elite liberals, warhawk patriots, and bigots-in-disguise about their opinions, but where are all of you in this?
I see religion and politics almost as two sides of the same coin. I also see both are eaten to the core with corruption and self aggrandizement. Either way, it's all about what someone wants - their way to be the way. That being the largest reason I like my religion and my politics on different plates.
One of the best comments I've seen in a long time. If these are your own personal thoughts then you are one of the rarest of the rare - a THINKER of original thoughts! I've seen some of those TV preachers talking about how God wants you to be rich, how God wants you to have prosperity. Talk about an old time medicine show with a magic elixir for whatever ails ye, that's the game we see now. Many of these new "mega-churches" are more business than church. I wish people of faith would keep their donations in their local church, where it gets spent helping their local communities. I live near Dobson's FOTF campus, and let me tell you, that guy has built a huge and glorious brick temple to himself, I guess he sees himself as a God.
I agree with all the posters who talk about how neo-CONs took the religious right to the cleaners. Behind Dobson's back the Bush white house referred to him and others as "useful idiots" for dumping cash and votes into the GOP column. David Kuo, one of Bush's people in the Office of Faith Based Initiatives blew the whistle on Bush, Rove, et al, in his book "Tempting Faith." It's a MUST read for the religious right to see just how badly they've been used and abused.
The only TV preacher ever worth listening too, IMO, is Billy Graham, the real deal. I heard on the news that Obama has visited him.
Mike--There's this guy that came to a church here in town to speak. His name is Shane Claiborne (sp?) He's kind of a mennonite/hippie/christian with a southern accent, but he seems as close to the real deal as I've seen in a long time. I was really impressed. He just finished a book called "Jesus for President" You might want to look into him if you're looking for more genuine christians.
I forgot about David Kuo, I'll have to read it when I have time.
Then what do you care? If those people aren't assured salvation then it doesn't concern you. And I most certainly agree that religion is a form of social control. However, I find it disingenous when a person such as your self questions anothers salvation. Perhaps you have the ability to accurately diagnose the state of Protestantism today, but you also have no grounds to declare who is worthy of salvation and who is not.
I don't think anyone is questioning another's salvation. I think what is being said is that I can beat you, steal from you, lie to you, but if in the end I say I believe that Jesus is my Lord and Savior, I am assured salvation, then I have no reason to stop my ways until the end. Since there is no good angel looking over my shoulder at all times making marks in the book, putting marks on my soul, I am free to treat others any way I wish. But I think that mainstream Protestant thought would require a good and holy life, but many that I know, are assured of their own salvation and do not have any impetus to go the extra mile to behave morally.
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