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Well, here we are in 2009 and the schools around here (NE OH) still conduct prayers regularly (public schools, by the way). I went to school here from 1969 to 1981, and I can reassure you that public schools did and continue to have "Christian" prayer. Now, I can't say what would happen if students and faculty of other faiths wanted to pray out loud, God forbid. The sky might come falling down.
A public school district in Ohio has agreed to stop daily recitation of the Lord's Prayer over the public-address system after a newspaper questioned the legality of the practice.
Officials at Mineral Ridge High School were in clear violation of the Supreme Court's 1962 and 1963 rulings striking down school-sponsored prayer. The school opened each day with recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance, followed by the Lord's Prayer.
Why public meetings? Why schools? Because that is where people gather. I imagine that originally prayer was way to bring people together by sharing an experience, great when all people believed the same thing, I can understand that. What I don't understand why anyone would insist, often loudly and against the law, that it be done now that a huge percentage of people no longer welcome it. It's no longer bringing people together, it's dividing them. And making them all mad.
I'm very curious to know why people insist and what positive outcome they hope to have. I know from reading that most people just fall into the "it's tradition" or "it's not hurting anyone" type of arguments, but those are cop outs that don't have any standing. And some just want to "stick it to" or spite people by doing everything they can and practically DARING someone to object, so they can fight about it. That sort of thing has no standing either. So what is the reason? Nobody has a real answer that makes sense...so it seems kind of silly to keep doing it.
What the pro-prayer people seem to be missing is that this is not some people getting together for prayer, this is the government leading the people in prayer, or, in other words, the government providing religious instruction.
In your wildest dreams do you really believe that the government, supported by your, my, and everybody else's tax dollars, has any business promulgating someone's religious views to the public? If so, how does the government decide which religion to propagate?
Let me explain the purpose of prayer and what it does for these meetings. When you are driving down the road specifically the highway and you see other cars do you feel a connection to the other drivers? You are all going the same direction some faster than others but you are all going the same way. What typically happens is a few of the drivers cut people off or go slow in the fast lane either out of ignorance or they don't care because they want to own the lane or are texting and phoning or having some other wild experience (we have all seen it).
Now immaging that same highway being the Grocery Store. Same thing only you are forced to integrate and communicate with people in the store. If people acted the way they drive in stores there would be fist fights in every isle. The reason there is not is because of the interaction. Sure there are some rude people blocking the isles talking to people or going really slow but they do get out of your way when you ask. They don't cut you off in the check out lane either they wait their turn.
Prayer at meetings sets a tone for communication. If thought of in this manor instead of thinking the meeting and the government is going to turn into the Taliban then you will find that the meetings go much smoother and people are more comfortable communicating instead of arguing about everything.
If people prayed to do the right thing when they got on the highway then there would be that sense of community and people would drive correctly and bad drivers would go away.
The prayer is not about religeon it is about bringing people together in one direction so the meetings are less stressfull. Now if someone was preaching it would be different. They don't in stead they just ask for guidance and civility and bless people. If you have a problem with that then you need to look in the mirror.
We need prayer to get us off on the right foot. Whether you pray to my God, your God or no God at all try it for 30 days and see if your feelings change. Pray for peace in your mind and life and not physical things. Pray for answers to the questions you have about why you feel the way you do and I will bet you if you do that for 30 days your life will change.
Try using the serenety prayer. You can change God to any word you want like:
Tree grant me the serenety to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. About day 18 you will begin to get it.
Let me explain the purpose of prayer at a public meeting funded by tax dollars. It's a Christian pissing contest. Just like "Jesus Saves" signs all over the place in the south. it's like dogs pissing on a fire hydrant. It says, "this is my terrority"; foreigners - Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, atheists, and anyone who doesn't believe the same superstitions and perform the same rituals we do - keep out.
If it has to do with making you feel all warm and fuzzy all over what's next, Yoga classes, massage therapy, aroma therapy, singing, chanting, crystal, dolphin healing, whirling dervishes...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep111
Let me explain the purpose of prayer and what it does for these meetings. When you are driving down the road specifically the highway and you see other cars do you feel a connection to the other drivers? You are all going the same direction some faster than others but you are all going the same way. What typically happens is a few of the drivers cut people off or go slow in the fast lane either out of ignorance or they don't care because they want to own the lane or are texting and phoning or having some other wild experience (we have all seen it).
Now immaging that same highway being the Grocery Store. Same thing only you are forced to integrate and communicate with people in the store. If people acted the way they drive in stores there would be fist fights in every isle. The reason there is not is because of the interaction. Sure there are some rude people blocking the isles talking to people or going really slow but they do get out of your way when you ask. They don't cut you off in the check out lane either they wait their turn.
Prayer at meetings sets a tone for communication. If thought of in this manor instead of thinking the meeting and the government is going to turn into the Taliban then you will find that the meetings go much smoother and people are more comfortable communicating instead of arguing about everything.
If people prayed to do the right thing when they got on the highway then there would be that sense of community and people would drive correctly and bad drivers would go away.
The prayer is not about religeon it is about bringing people together in one direction so the meetings are less stressfull. Now if someone was preaching it would be different. They don't in stead they just ask for guidance and civility and bless people. If you have a problem with that then you need to look in the mirror.
We need prayer to get us off on the right foot. Whether you pray to my God, your God or no God at all try it for 30 days and see if your feelings change. Pray for peace in your mind and life and not physical things. Pray for answers to the questions you have about why you feel the way you do and I will bet you if you do that for 30 days your life will change.
Try using the serenety prayer. You can change God to any word you want like:
Tree grant me the serenety to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. About day 18 you will begin to get it.
My job often requires me to attend City of Miami public hearings. When I went to my first one, I was completely shocked to find that before starting the public hearing, everyone was required to stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance. Then, one of the board members who is a reverend, led everyone in a prayer! Isn't this illegal? When I was in about 6th grade in Illinois (many, many years ago), we had to stop saying the Pledge of Allegiance every day at school because of the phrase "under God". Some kids might be atheist or a different religion and it was stopped out of respect for other religions and beliefs. Also, we were not allowed to pray before sporting events or in school for the same reason. This is the only city I've ever come across who still does this and I find it completely astonishing...especially at a PUBLIC, GOVERNMENT meeting! I brought it up to a coworker (originally from California) who agreed that it was wrong, but made the point that because most people here are foreign-born, why is there such a strong religious affiliation? Particularly, why is saying the Pledge of Allegiance so important to people not even born in the U.S.? You'd think it was just the opposite. I just find this conservativeness very strange and non-progressive.
Tell you what. Next time you go to one of those meetings and someone prays write down all of the offensive words in the prayer and post them here. Like I said replace the word God for Tree, Turd, Satin, Car Keys what ever you want you will get the same thing. Prayer again is used to calm people and get them in the right frame of mind for the things they deal with in life. Religeon is totally different from prayer. Religeon is the comming together of like minded people who want to fashon their lives in a certain way. Prayer is not religeon. No one says in a prayer to pray for the non Baptists, Catholics, Jews, Hindus or what ever. Again if you prayed a litte more to Satin to give your life peace you would come to understand in about 30 days that prayer is not such a bad thing. Give it a try. I dare you.
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