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Old 08-13-2008, 11:38 PM
 
Location: North Side of Indy, IN
1,966 posts, read 2,707,956 times
Reputation: 655

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
You are one cruel person. Why so mad? Is it because the USA is sooooo great and military service is so sacred that to clearly see it for the folly that it is is incomprehensible to you?

I think the Native Americans should own the US government for all the times the US failed to live up to its signed treaties and contracts. We should be sweeping out their teepees and cleaning the toilets at their casinos. Following your logic, would you not agree?

I say expletive the stupid military and the US government. Give me a cause worth fighting for, THEN I'll consider giving you my pound of flesh. Of course, I'd find a better way that wouldn't cost any of us anything...instead of donning a uniform and serving amoral pigs who don't care about human life.
That all may (or may not) be true, but the fact of the matter is that a major function of the military is to fight for a nation or nations during times of war, and he freely and willingly signed up to serve in the military. No one forced him. No one drafted him. No one conned him. He signed his military service contract of his own free will, and he must honor that contract. If he does not agree with war and if he cannot bring himself to kill someone in the name of war, then he should not have signed up to serve in the military in the first place. But, the simple fact is that he DID sign up, so now he must honor his contract by serving his country during a time of war, whether or not he agrees with said war or the people behind it.

Can you imagine if a larger percentage (10%, 25%, 50%?) of American soldiers decided to retreat to Canada in order to avoid being deployed? What would happen to our military's infrastructure, our country's security, and/or the safety of our soldiers overseas, if a large number of soldiers just suddenly decided that they didn't want to serve any longer? These are all major reasons why the military has service contracts and such strict rules regarding deployment.

You sign up, you serve until your time is up, per your contract. Doesn't get much simpler than that. You breach your contract, you pay severely for breaking such an important contract and disgracing your country and our military system.

Last edited by Politico; 08-13-2008 at 11:47 PM..
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:49 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,147,311 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Politico View Post
Can you imagine if a larger percentage (10%, 25%, 50%?) of American soldiers decided to retreat to Canada in order to avoid being deployed? What would happen to our military's infrastructure, our country's security, and/or the safety of our soldiers overseas? These are all major reasons why the military has service contracts and such strict rules regarding deployment.
Yes, I can imagine what you describe and it would be about time for that to occur! This whole idea of security=military is an illusion, a very expensive one. It's about time we moved past things that no longer work. It's about time we all grew out of the fear that imprisons us and be sovereign to ourselves. We are human before we are Americans.

Why are some so willing to believe the military's strict rules are sacred while that same institution ignores all other rules of morality?

Oh, you edited your reply to mention the disgrace such refusals cause. I personally am not disgraced. I support anyone who does what he did. There is no honor in doing the wrong thing.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,320,201 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
Yes, I can imagine what you describe and it would be about time for that to occur! This whole idea of security=military is an illusion, a very expensive one. It's about time we moved past things that no longer work. It's about time we all grew out of the fear that imprisons us and be sovereign to ourselves. We are human before we are Americans.

Why are some so willing to believe the military's strict rules are sacred while that same institution ignores all other rules of morality?
You never served in the military I take it -

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Old 08-13-2008, 11:53 PM
 
13,784 posts, read 26,282,568 times
Reputation: 7446
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
Yes, I can imagine what you describe and it would be about time for that to occur! This whole idea of security=military is an illusion, a very expensive one. It's about time we moved past things that no longer work. It's about time we all grew out of the fear that imprisons us and be sovereign to ourselves. We are human before we are Americans.

Why are some so willing to believe the military's strict rules are sacred while that same institution ignores all other rules of morality?

Oh, you edited your reply to mention the disgrace such refusals cause. I personally am not disgraced. I support anyone who does what he did. There is no honor in doing the wrong thing.
Rules of morality? Does honoring your word and contracts in life constitute a rule of morality? Honoring my obligations is definitely part of my moral compass.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:53 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,147,311 times
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Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
You never served in the military I take it -

I will be immune from its influence in this lifetime. I've done it too many times in other lives to fall victim to the same merry-go-round.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:54 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,147,311 times
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Originally Posted by mrstewart View Post
Rules of morality? Does honoring your word and contracts in life constitute a rule of morality? Honoring my obligations is definitely part of my moral compass.
Morality MUST be a two-way street. It cannot only apply to one party.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,320,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
Morality MUST be a two-way street. It cannot only apply to one party.
In the case we are talking about - this man was a deserter - from an obligation and duty he freely agreed to.

Upon his return to the United States, he will be court-martialed and sentenced to hard labor at Leavenworth - as he should be.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:01 AM
 
13,784 posts, read 26,282,568 times
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So, let me see if I am understanding you...

You have NO morals unless they are first exhibited to you by another party, because morality is a two way street? But, in another post you said you fought the fight by being the example... so, how does that work?

Morals are the fiber of your being. They are never a give and take.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:08 AM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,147,311 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
In the case we are talking about - this man was a deserter - from an obligation and duty he freely agreed to.

Upon his return to the United States, he will be court-martialed and sentenced to hard labor at Leavenworth - as he should be.
What purpose is served by such a sentence? What a waste of time and money.

This guy stood up for his own humanity. When one side of the contract commits any action that is morally suspect, the contract should be null and void. While you may see such "enslavement" as a necessary part of life in the twenty first century, I find it barbaric. I encourage every member of the military to do what their conscience says and ignore the anvils deliberately placed over their heads to rob them of their humanity. Reclaim who you are.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:23 AM
 
Location: North Side of Indy, IN
1,966 posts, read 2,707,956 times
Reputation: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
What purpose is served by such a sentence? What a waste of time and money.

This guy stood up for his own humanity. When one side of the contract commits any action that is morally suspect, the contract should be null and void. While you may see such "enslavement" as a necessary part of life in the twenty first century, I find it barbaric. I encourage every member of the military to do what their conscience says and ignore the anvils deliberately placed over their heads to rob them of their humanity.
If one believes that the military's contracts and rules are "anvils deliberately placed over their heads to rob them of their humanity," one shouldn't have joined the military in the first place. Plain and simple.

It's not as if the military and its functions and rules are secrets that aren't revealed until one signs on the dotted line. People who sign up to serve in the military know exactly what they're getting themselves into. I mean, come on. It's not a secret, it's not a surprise. By dishonoring his military service contract, the man is dishonoring this country, disgracing our military system which he willingly signed up to be part of, and committing a major crime. He should be made an example of, so as to prevent more soldiers from following in his traitorous footsteps.
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