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Exactly. This idea of well 250 grand a year folks can afford an increase is bogus class envy. That is assuming for some reason that those folks don't earn their salary, or atleast don't work as hard for it. I make about 75g a year. I know for a fact I am not under the same pressure as an upper level manager where I work. Nor is my decision space as large. Top that off with I have more job security than they do. I don't even like most of my managers but at the same time I understand why they make more.
I am more of a flat tax no loopholes no deductions kind of guy.
I'm with ya on this. I'd be ok not getting credits and rebates and having to itemize and pay accountants and attorneys to check all the dotted I's and crossed T's. By the time I get done with them any rebate I get is done spent before I see it. Then government can just live within it's means. In this way more money is out there for private citizens to spend and keep businesses operating also. All those "evil" rich people will have money to spend on plumbing and heating upgrades or building fancy new houses with elaborate custom kitchens and baths which I am happy to install. Hmm my vendors might just get a little warm and fuzzy about that to I might have to hire a couple more guys to keep up. Would that help stimulate the economy? Silly me
1. The fact that many children don't graduate or graduate with substandard reading comprehension, math ability, etc. is at least partially a result of substandard schools. Indeed, not all schools are equal; many public schools in the US are seriously underfunded and understaffed. Depending on where you are born, you may end up living near a top-notch, highly-funded school or you may end up in a terrible, crime-ridden undersupported inner city school. Can you honestly say that this is the fault of the children themselves, rather than a fault of circumstance. The sad truth is that not all children have the same education opportunities even if they have the same abilities at the beginning.
2. Children are less likely to succeed in school if they are born into poverty. Impovershed children are less likely to have good role models, are less likely to have educated parents who promote education, are less likely to have help at home for their homework. They are less likely to be healthy, they are less likely to have a chance to go to a good college. They are going to have to work a lot harder to make it as far as a kid who was born into an upper-middle class suburban household. In short, some children are disadvantaged from birth and have huge obstacles to overcome even to make a modest living.
3. Education is critical to sustainable economic development, as is adequate accessible healthcare. This is a fact recognized and promoted by organizations like the IMF and World Bank which are not exactly bastions of liberalism. The better educated our populace, the healthier our populace the better our economy. Ensuring equal access to quality education, which does not exist in the US at this time, would be a substantial boon to economic growth. The same can be said of equal access to quality healthcare, though that is a more controversial issue...
Just some things worth thinking about...
My solution for #2 is to take them away from their parents. If the kids aren't going to school, sanction the parents & cut the check. If the health care is inadequate, take them & put them in environments where they are cared for.
I am speaking from personal experience. A documentary needs to be done for all those outside the inner city to see what is really going on. Imagine this:
You walk into a house where there are 9 kids and 2 adults hanging out & the smell of freshly smoked weed is so strong you can't stand it.
You have a young Mom of 19, with one 2 year old and another on the way, living with a drug dealer boyfriend & his low level sexual assult uncle, who is also a drunk. The mom & her daughter were forced out of their last apartment 6 months ago because it was raided due to Dad's drug dealing. Little girl dropped off constantly while Mom & Dad hang out with friends. Mom is wanted on warrant & Uncle just got off probation.
Mom has 3 kids, one with chronic asthma. Mom has mental illness, but refuses help. Asthma daughter starts screaming @ Mom that she can't breathe. Daughter cries that she is dying. She falls on floor & Mom goes downstairs to talk to neighbor. Neighbor, a CMA, comes upstairs, does CPR, but at this time fluid is gushing from daughter. CMA yells for Mom to call 911. Mom waits until daughter is dead & then calls. Paramedics arrive & cart away deceased daughter, police arrive to open investigation into cause of death. Daughter was removed from Mom a year prior & then placed back with her ill-equipped Mom. CMA states that Mom let her daughter die - 911 could have saved her life. Mom said that daughter wanted to die because she was tired of living with asthma. How do I know this? My plumber was there at the time remodeling the bathroom.
Mom chronic drunk. 5 kids - only daughter is product of relationship with pastor at church. Same pastor molested 3 of her boys & went to prision. Kids see parents drink constantly, smoke weed & fight. Kids, 2 in elementary school, are allowed to watch movies like "Saw" & "Halloween". Kids unattended most of the time. Rarely clean.
Dad & Mom have 5 kids. Kids are unclean & unattended most of the time. Mom works while Dad takes off with his friends, leaving the kids to do what they want. The youngest is 5. They all make their own meals & because Mom & Dad haven't put on the power yet in their new apartment, they have a cooler for a fridge & no heat during October in the Midwest.
Mom & Dad aren't married, but have orgys with the Mom's best friend. Mom's friend is dating Dad's brother. Daughter 1.5 years old, has seen Mom & Dad have sex, drink, smoke weed & fist fight. Daughter saw Grandma take a knife and try to stab Dad. Dad tried to push Grandma down the stairs. Grandma is also addicted to drugs and alcohol. Grandma asks me, if you have sex with a guy who has AIDS, can you get it? Mom is so dirty, gets a cut on her toe, refuses to clean it & medicate like Doc says & it gets infected. Mom has to go to hospital to have calf down removed. Mom happy because now she qualifies for SSI. How do I know? I visited Mom in the hospital & I am Mom & Grandma's landlord.
Dad and Mom have 3 kids. Dad works, but when he comes home , he plays video games and smokes weed. Grandpa is a sex offender. Grandpa molested 2 of his own sons.
I mean I have many more stories. I see it everyday. Do I want these people to get my hard earned money? NO. Do I want their kids to get taken away? Yeah, some of them. Every year, I give every child who resides in one of my apartments a toy at Christmas so they don't go without. I donate my kids clothes that they grow out of & toys that they don't play with anymore all to tenant children. I read books to them & took 2 kids back to school shopping because their parents refused to take them and neither had sneakers. I have taken groups of tenant kids to Chuck E Cheese with my own kids to get away from their awful parents & try to be a happy kid for a little while. That is why I am so fed up with the parents. These kids are taught to be opportunists like their parents - they aren't born that way. If I could, I would gladly take in many of these lost kids & show them that they can do well in school & can go to college. I know what goes on in the inner city & Obama will only make it worse.
Good post indep. Thinker.
I was waiting for the its not their fault crowd to chime in. No its not every poor persons fault that they are poor. But we all own some personal accountability in our situations.
I came from a poor family 5 children. Of the 5 4 are quite successful and the fifth would be if he would simply think a little before making a decision.
What I learned from growing up poor.
1. Don't count your money until its in your hand.
2. No one cares if I live or die. I own that.
3. If I want something its worth saving for. DO NOT CHARGE IT. Not unless I can pay it off that month.
4. Never finance a toy...... That includes a TV of any size.
5. pay my bills before I even think about luxuries.
6. Most important Plan for tomorrow next week next year next 10 years for life.
7. Suck it up. work extra hours or a second job to make up for unforeseen short falls.
Its not Rocket science.
My solution for #2 is to take them away from their parents. If the kids aren't going to school, sanction the parents & cut the check. If the health care is inadequate, take them & put them in environments where they are cared for.
I am speaking from personal experience. A documentary needs to be done for all those outside the inner city to see what is really going on. Imagine this
Where are you going to place these children? We already have too many children in foster care which is already very underfunded. Children going into the foster care system are among the most disadvantaged, as well. This isn't a solution, it's just taking one problem and turning into a completely different, but just as serious (more serious, even), problem. Your 'solution' would require huge increases in government spending, not something I'm opposed to but judging from your earlier posts it sounds like something you aren't all that supportive of. What are your recommendations for the structuring of the policies to implement this sort of approach? How is the state going to go about determining who loses custody? Where are the children going to go and how are we going to ensure that where they are placed improves their lives?
Additionally, you still haven't addressed the problem of qualitative disparities between different public schools, another serious problem hindering the opportunities of already disadvantaged youth.
It seems to me that the underlying problem here is a systemic one; poverty itself is to blame. The poverty cycle is real, poverty tends to perpetuate itself. Poverty creates ghettos, it creates the kind of culture you rail against. Poverty ensures that some people are born at an extreme disadvantage due to circumstance. Thus, it would appear that the only way to really solve the problem in the long-term is to find ways of eliminating poverty itself. Equal opportunity to high quality education would be necessary as would equal accessibility to quality healthcare. Job training, unemployment benefits, financial assitance for single-parent/impovershed families are all likely necessary to realizing this. Yet, this is not enough and if the policies aimed at doing this are improperly structured they could exacerbate, rather than mitigate, the problem. The trick is to find ways to structure policy to provide the necessary relief without socializing recipients into a perpetual cycle of dependence.
Exactly. This idea of well 250 grand a year folks can afford an increase is bogus class envy. That is assuming for some reason that those folks don't earn their salary, or atleast don't work as hard for it. I make about 75g a year. I know for a fact I am not under the same pressure as an upper level manager where I work. Nor is my decision space as large. Top that off with I have more job security than they do. I don't even like most of my managers but at the same time I understand why they make more.
I am more of a flat tax no loopholes no deductions kind of guy.
Where are you going to place these children? We already have too many children in foster care which is already very underfunded. Children going into the foster care system are among the most disadvantaged, as well. This isn't a solution, it's just taking one problem and turning into a completely different, but just as serious (more serious, even), problem. Your 'solution' would require huge increases in government spending, not something I'm opposed to but judging from your earlier posts it sounds like something you aren't all that supportive of. What are your recommendations for the structuring of the policies to implement this sort of approach? How is the state going to go about determining who loses custody? Where are the children going to go and how are we going to ensure that where they are placed improves their lives?
Additionally, you still haven't addressed the problem of qualitative disparities between different public schools, another serious problem hindering the opportunities of already disadvantaged youth.
It seems to me that the underlying problem here is a systemic one; poverty itself is to blame. The poverty cycle is real, poverty tends to perpetuate itself. Poverty creates ghettos, it creates the kind of culture you rail against. Poverty ensures that some people are born at an extreme disadvantage due to circumstance. Thus, it would appear that the only way to really solve the problem in the long-term is to find ways of eliminating poverty itself. Equal opportunity to high quality education would be necessary as would equal accessibility to quality healthcare. Job training, unemployment benefits, financial assitance for single-parent/impovershed families are all likely necessary to realizing this. Yet, this is not enough and if the policies aimed at doing this are improperly structured they could exacerbate, rather than mitigate, the problem. The trick is to find ways to structure policy to provide the necessary relief without socializing recipients into a perpetual cycle of dependence.
Ok, I understand a lot of what you have said. I just don't agree with it. Look at Tinman's post. He grew up in poverty & beat it. He was hungry - he wanted more & he is very successful as a result. The bottom line is personal accountability. You said " Equal opportunity to high quality education would be necessary as would equal accessibility to quality healthcare." It is available right now. However, should colleges LOWER their standards to ALLOW sub par students admissions? Would that truly guarantee a better, brighter future? I think not. Political Correctness got us in this hot mess & we need to put an end to it. If you don't study, get used to flippin burgers at McDonalds. We need burger flippers just like we need doctors. Everyone has a place, but it is up to each person to decide what that place will be.
Good post indep. Thinker.
I was waiting for the its not their fault crowd to chime in. No its not every poor persons fault that they are poor. But we all own some personal accountability in our situations.
I came from a poor family 5 children. Of the 5 4 are quite successful and the fifth would be if he would simply think a little before making a decision.
What I learned from growing up poor.
1. Don't count your money until its in your hand.
2. No one cares if I live or die. I own that.
3. If I want something its worth saving for. DO NOT CHARGE IT. Not unless I can pay it off that month.
4. Never finance a toy...... That includes a TV of any size.
5. pay my bills before I even think about luxeries.
6. Most important Plan for tomorow next week next year next 10 years for life.
7. Suck it up. work extra hours or a second job to make up for unforseen short falls.
Its not Rocket science.
I hope as many people as possible read your post. I admire that you're a realist & that you're self made. I wish more were like you!
Ok, I understand a lot of what you have said. I just don't agree with it. Look at Tinman's post. He grew up in poverty & beat it. He was hungry - he wanted more & he is very successful as a result. The bottom line is personal accountability. You said " Equal opportunity to high quality education would be necessary as would equal accessibility to quality healthcare." It is available right now. However, should colleges LOWER their standards to ALLOW sub par students admissions? Would that truly guarantee a better, brighter future? I think not. Political Correctness got us in this hot mess & we need to put an end to it. If you don't study, get used to flippin burgers at McDonalds. We need burger flippers just like we need doctors. Everyone has a place, but it is up to each person to decide what that place will be.
LOL My education was the US Navy. PC and outcome based education ideas are holding us back. Its not PC to hold individuals accountable for their actions/decisions.
The one thing I grew up with that helped me big time. Our house had disipline. We all had chores. Thats life on a small farm.
So often I hear but they owe me. Or why can't I get promoted I am here longer than you.. Well because performance means something...
We have those who abuse benefits then complain when they cost more later.
Watch late night TV you can not escape ads for lawyers. Its my money and I want it now.
Entitlment generation at its worst.
Social programs succeed at one thing. Creating an even greater dependence on them.
I hope as many people as possible read your post. I admire that you're a realist & that you're self made. I wish more were like you!
Thank you. You know when I buy a new toy its months of research. I hate buyers remorse.
My garden tiller was 1 year of research planing and saving. I bought the best machine made at the time.
My house was 3 years of planing. Geothermal heat pump.
2x6 exteriors 2 layers r-33 in the ceilings.
Positioned on my land to take advantage of the winter sun.
I have never had a loan go to term. I always pay off early if even only by 1 month.
Its not hard to succeed in our society. Its just easier to fail. Too many folks bank on money not yet in hand. Too many assume they will have more next year. Our mortgage crisis is typical of short term planners.
Americans have 1 great flaw. We are short term thinkers.
Our second flaw is we are being programed to rely on the fed to bail us out no matter what.
Not me, I don't trust the fed, trust the reps in office and I will never trust a gov run agency to do anything but justify their own jobs.
LOL My education was the US Navy. PC and outcome based education ideas are holding us back. Its not PC to hold individuals accountable for their actions/decisions.
The one thing I grew up with that helped me big time. Our house had disipline. We all had chores. Thats life on a small farm.
So often I hear but they owe me. Or why can't I get promoted I am here longer than you.. Well because performance means something...
We have those who abuse benefits then complain when they cost more later.
Watch late night TV you can not escape ads for lawyers. Its my money and I want it now.
Entitlment generation at its worst.
Social programs succeed at one thing. Creating an even greater dependence on them.
Okay, well maybe I romanced it a bit. Ah well, like you said, entitlement isn't doing anyone any favors.
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. Hmm my vendors might just get a little warm and fuzzy about that to
I might have to hire a couple more guys to keep up. Would that help stimulate the economy? Silly me
I like how you think
Ah well, like you said, entitlement isn't doing anyone any favors.
