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Old 01-07-2009, 10:32 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,464,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicwriter View Post
sadly episodes like this happen more often than is reported in the news. That one just happened to be documented by a video camera.

I remember when i lived in Wisconsin, there was one time 5 cops were trying to arrest some woman, don't remember why. She was not physically resisting, was just badmouthing the police because she was drunk, i think. She reached into her purse to get her cell phone out, and all 5 cops emptied their clips on her. That was completely uncalled for. I believe they were only reprimanded, and that was it.
If your resisting arrest the next step is attacking.... It's that simple. You guys act like it's millions of cops against a few criminals...turn the odds around for the truth.

 
Old 01-07-2009, 10:35 AM
 
8,289 posts, read 13,564,801 times
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big john and on that token should this young man have been shot execution style because he was in a fight? He had no weapons and they killed him like a dog.

edit: watch the video again he was not resisting.
 
Old 01-07-2009, 10:42 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,464,356 times
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No I already said that.....way back on the first page...I think it's a horrible situation and am not apologizing for this action in anyway. But with all the hate of cops can anyone truly say it would be better without them or under martial law?
 
Old 01-07-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,651,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Apparently you do not know laws. That's your ignorance and no one other than you.
Educate me.
 
Old 01-07-2009, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
1,554 posts, read 5,290,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
But this wasn't about being black. Why must you assume this is a race thing? Is that where your head is at? Is that how it's like where YOU live? That is a real shame that you even think that way in this day and age. IT just isn't like that out here.

This was about 4 people causing a disturbance in a public place (the train). Someone called the cops on them. A civilian reported it.

There was a justifiable reason for police involvement, certainly not for DEATH, but for restraining them.

In all my years(35+) with ALL my friends (hundreds) of ALL colors (a freaking rainbow) from ALL over this county, I have YET to hear of a time where any one of them felt they were pulled over or harrassed JUST for the color of their skin. And we DO talk about this sort of thing. I would love to hear about an incident because i have the best lawyer EVER. But i have yet to come across an instance where that has been case.

We honestly don't have "race" issues out here. Most of the country is divided by it i guess, but we really aren't. Cops harrass white folks and asian folks and mexican folks and black folks and even INDIANS ALL the same.
Huh? We don't have race issues out here? Are you serious? You can't be. I was pulled over by the OPD for having a "Broken Tailight" when it wasn't broken, then was asked where I got the car and if I was a member of a gang from the Acorn Housing projects. All while being called "Boy" by two white patrol cops.

I'm 30 years old, Black and own my own condo. Those cops did not care, after they ran my license and saw I had no record the cop giving me back my license smirked and said stay out of trouble.

You need to wake up and realize racism is alive and well yes, in california, yes in the bay area.


By the way I don't think this is a racial issue, just a untrained idiot cop issue.
 
Old 01-07-2009, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,651,238 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Boy View Post
Huh? We don't have race issues out here? Are you serious? You can't be. I was pulled over by the OPD for having a "Broken Tailight" when it wasn't broken, then was asked where I got the car and if I was a member of a gang from the Acorn Housing projects. All while being called "Boy" by two white patrol cops.

I'm 30 years old, Black and own my own condo. Those cops did not care, after they ran my license and saw I had no record the cop giving me back my license smirked and said stay out of trouble.

You need to wake up and realize racism is alive and well yes, in california, yes in the bay area.

What that child needs now, is a clue, a clue.........
 
Old 01-07-2009, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Iowa
331 posts, read 1,384,879 times
Reputation: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
If your resisting arrest the next step is attacking.... It's that simple. You guys act like it's millions of cops against a few criminals...turn the odds around for the truth.
so, are you saying it's OK to just have 5 officers empty their guns into this woman when she was not doing anything life threatening?

I didn't watch the youtube video in the OP, but i was just using what i wrote as an example.

This incident was before tasers became a tool used by officers

Last edited by musicwriter; 01-07-2009 at 11:18 AM.. Reason: forgot to add this part LOL
 
Old 01-07-2009, 11:21 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,464,356 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad View Post
Educate me.
Seems like a little late in life for you.
 
Old 01-07-2009, 11:23 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,464,356 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Boy View Post
Huh? We don't have race issues out here? Are you serious? You can't be. I was pulled over by the OPD for having a "Broken Tailight" when it wasn't broken, then was asked where I got the car and if I was a member of a gang from the Acorn Housing projects. All while being called "Boy" by two white patrol cops.

I'm 30 years old, Black and own my own condo. Those cops did not care, after they ran my license and saw I had no record the cop giving me back my license smirked and said stay out of trouble.

You need to wake up and realize racism is alive and well yes, in california, yes in the bay area.


By the way I don't think this is a racial issue, just a untrained idiot cop issue.
Racism would have had you outside the car face down on the ground beating you. Instead they let you go those horrible racist cops. If they pull you over for no reason and give you a false one then sue. Don't come on forums talking about how much of a victim you are... It's called action.
 
Old 01-07-2009, 11:24 AM
 
Location: THE USA
3,257 posts, read 6,127,905 times
Reputation: 1998
Apparently the only claim of racial slurs used were by the other cops to the other passengers of the train, NOT to the 4 who were detained and not by the cop who killed him. Which would make this killing a non racially motivated death.

It was a Latino cop who yanked Grant off the train and hurt him. So is it well known that the Latino's hate Blacks? Do Blacks hate Latino's? Do Black's hate Asians? Do Asians hate blacks? What about Middle Easterners?

Oh and us Native Americans LOVE You all for stealing our land. Well done.

I agree that this officer was negligient if it turns out that he grabbed the wrong weapon and should be prosecuted for manslaughter because of shooting the wrong weapon as the use-of-force experts have stated.

Just like a Doctor when you're a cop and you make a mistake on that JOB it has serious consequences. You shouldn't go on the job with only half your senses working.

And if he intentionally shot this guy in the back while unarmed he should get 2nd degree pre meditated murder. But i personally don't believe that is what really happened. My interrpretation of his reaction right AFTER the shooting was not "GOT HIM!", it was more like "WHAT JUST HAPPENED?"

The cop still has not made statements, but then again his wife just had a baby a day before this killing, so i am sure his mind was not entirely ON THE JOB as it should have been. He should have taken 2 weeks off to help the wifey like any GOOD FATHER would have done. This would never have happened.
-------------------------------

Family Claims BART Victim's Civil Rights Violated
Family Claims BART Victim's Civil Rights Violated - News Story - KTVU San Francisco
Updated: 8:10 pm PST January 6, 2009
OAKLAND, Calif. -- Family members of a Hayward man, who was shot and killed by a BART police officer early New Year's Day, allege in a $25 million claim Tuesday that officers violated his civil rights, illegally detained him and used excessive force.
The claim, filed by attorney John Burris on behalf of Wanda Johnson, Oscar Grant III's mother, and Sophina Mesa, the mother of Grant's 4-year-old daughter, also names the BART police officer who shot Grant as Johannes Mehserle.
Grant, who worked as a butcher at an Oakland grocery store, "was unarmed and offered no physical resistance to BART police officers" before being shot shortly after 2 a.m. on Jan. 1, according to the claim.
Grant was riding BART back to the East Bay "after a night of celebrating New Year's Eve in San Francisco" when an altercation erupted on his train, prompting BART police to meet the train at the Fruitvale station to quash the fight, the claim states.
Mehserle and other officers, whose names aren't mentioned in the claim, ordered Grant and other passengers to get off the train, according to the claim.
The claim states that Grant complied and stepped off the train, but that an unnamed "Latino officer" grabbed Grant's upper body, threw him against a nearby wall and kneed him in the face.
Grant then dropped to his knees and put his hands up "in an effort to demonstrate that he was submitting to the Latino officer's thuggish display of authority," according to the claim.
But the officer dug his knee into Grant's back, causing Grant to "yell out in agony," the claim states.
Grant feared for his life and "made a valiant effort to de-escalate the situation by appealing to the officer's sense of humanity by telling the officer that he had a 4-year-old daughter" and asking the officer not to use a Taser gun on him, according to the claim.
The claim alleges that Mehserle, who was standing nearby, kneeled down and restrained Grant's hands, then "inexplicably" stood up, drew his firearm and pointed it directly at Grant's back.
The claim states, "Without so much as flinching, Officer Mehserle stood over Mr. Grant and mercilessly fired his weapon, mortally wounding Mr. Grant with a single gunshot sound to the back."
Video footage of the shooting and witness statements indicate that after Grant was shot officers placed him in handcuffs "without any justification," the claim states.
BART spokesman Linton Johnson has not returned calls for comment today.
At a briefing at BART headquarters on Monday, Johnson told reporters that BART officials won't have much to say about the shooting until their investigation is completed, a process he said will take at least several weeks.
"We urge the public to be patient with us," Johnson said Monday. "It's frustrating to us because people are getting upset about what happened, but we owe it to the public, the family (of Grant) and the police officer to get all the facts."
"We want to investigate this quickly but we don't want to have a rush to judgment," he said.
Burris said that if BART rejects the claim, he will file a lawsuit after 45 days.
Burris said he believes Grant was cooperative during the incident and that BART police officers "escalated the situation."
Some police use-of-force experts who have looked at footage of the incident have said that Mehserle may have meant to fire a Taser at Grant but instead mistakenly shot him with a gun.
But Burris said, "I'm not sure if that's true" and pointed out that BART hasn't yet said one way or the other if Mehserle had a Taser during the incident.
Burris said he doesn't think Mehserle had any justification to use even a Taser on Grant.
He said that if Mehserle deliberately shot Grant with a gun, the officer should be prosecuted for second-degree murder.
Burris said if Mehserle had intended to use a Taser and mistakenly fired his gun, the officer should be prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter.
"It's negligence if you pick the wrong weapon," Burris said.
Mehserle is on paid administrative leave while the incident is investigated by BART and the Alameda County District Attorney's office.
District Attorney Tom Orloff, who has the power to file charges against Mehserle if the thinks they are warranted, said the investigation by his office may take several weeks because it will take time to complete the autopsy protocol and toxicology reports.
In addition, his office may need to re-interview witnesses, Orloff said.
A memorial service will be held for Grant at 11 a.m. Wednesday at Palma Ceia Baptist Church, located at 28605 Ruus Road in Hayward.

Officer In BART Shooting Under Police Protection - News Story - KTVU San Francisco
Tuesday, January 6, 2009 – updated: 12:03 am PST January 7, 2009
OAKLAND, Calif. -- KTVU learned from BART Tuesday evening that the officer involved in the fatal New Year’s Day shooting at the Fruitvale station has received death threats and is currently under police protection.

The threats have forced the officer to be moved twice.

Earlier Tuesday, family members of Hayward resident Oscar Grant III, who was shot and killed by a BART police officer early New Year's Day, allege in a $25 million claim that officers violated his civil rights, illegally detained him and used excessive force.

The claim, filed by attorney John Burris on behalf of Wanda Johnson, Grant's mother, and Sophina Mesa, the mother of Grant's 4-year-old daughter, also names the BART police officer who shot Grant as Johannes Mehserle.

Grant, who worked as a butcher at an Oakland grocery store, "was unarmed and offered no physical resistance to BART police officers" before being shot shortly after 2 a.m. on Jan. 1, according to the claim.

Mehserle is seen on at least two video tapes firing his gun into the back of Oscar Grant as Grant lay on the floor of the Fruitvale BART station.

Burris says there are four videos of the shooting he knows of which bolster his case against BART and the officer.

"There's no such thing as a slam dunk other than basketball, but in terms of the case itself, we have very compelling evidence," said Burris

Still frames from video of the scene show Officer Mehserle minutes before the shooting. He appears to be wearing a Taser on his left hip and a gun on his right. There is also a female officer nearby with a Taser out of its holster and in her hand.

At one point, it appears Mehserle has drawn his Taser and is standing over Oscar Grant. Witnesses claim they heard Grant pleading with police to not be tasered.

Another image shows Grant handcuffed moments before he was shot. Yet another image shows Mehserle firing the gun that killed grant.

Attorney Burris says the pictures not only show the shooting was unjustified, but that Mehserle should be charged with a crime.

"The videotape that we see where the person is being shot in the back while he is on the ground and not commiting a danger to the officer," said Burris "That's criminal conduct. To me that's murder. That's second-degree murder. "

Mehserle now has an attorney, but his attorney did not return phone calls to KTVU for this story.

A closer look at images taken from video shot during and after the incident raise troubling questions about the actions of Mehserle in the moments before his gun fired.

Engineer Devinder Grewal specializes in failure analysis and accident reconstruction. Tuesday, he examined videos obtained by KTVU that seem to indicate Mehserle drew a Taser at least once before the fatal shooting. Mehserle’s actions raise questions about whether the officer was confused about which weapon he was holding when the gun fired.

"I would want to look at this and try to make a diagram of where the people are and how they're moving," said Grewal. "If the facts as we know them now are true, then this means that he did manage to take the Taser out from the left-hand side with his right hand and had it on his right-hand side before the shooting. Then -- at some point -- the Taser is gone. It's either back in its holster or it's gone because he's got his gun in his right hand."

Mehserle graduated from the Napa Valley College Criminal Justice Training Center in 2006.

Center Director Damien Sandoval says instructors here emphasize defensive tactics such as when to use a weapon and what type to draw.

"Both at the academy training level and in the departments, we do a lot to make sure the officers are aware of weapon placement on their utility belts," explained Sandoval.

Still, Sandoval says there is always a potential for confusion in melees such as the one on the BART platform New Year's Day.

"It's really disconcerting when you see a group of people -- both officers and civilians -- acting in the confusion that's surrounding them," said Sandoval. "So I really was struck by the amount of stress that was put upon everyone that was involved in that situation."

Mehserle has not yet spoken to BART investigators. Legal experts say Mehserle has a Fifth Amendment right not to do so. BART investigators are likely talking to others involved in the shooting.

"They're probably talking to the other officers who were there that night, trying to find out if there was anything unusual about that officer," said San Francisco criminal defense lawyer Steven Gruel. "Was he acting strange, or saying anything that would be unusual? They're probably talking to that gentleman who was sitting down at the scene apparently cuffed near the incident."

Gruel said the availability of these videos could actually hinder investigators interviewing those caught on tape that morning.

"It allows those who were there to know that video is out there," explained Gruel."They see themselves and they may try to maybe fashion a story to meet what's seen visually."

Gruel told KTVU the $25 million dollar lawsuit Grant's family has filed against BART is "an extremely strong case."

BART has told KTVU it is investigating the incident and has asked that people not jump to conclusions. BART has 45 days to respond to the legal claim filed Tuesday. If BART rejects it, as Burris expects, he says he'll file a civil rights lawsuit in federal court.

BART has told KTVU it is investigating the incident and has asked that people not jump to conclusions.

Tuesday night, a BART spokesman said attempts have been made to interview Mehserle, but that his attorney has "stonewalled" and not made him available.

The spokesman said if Mehserle is not available within days, BART will compel him to be interviewed under threat of firing.

Burris says there may be additional legal action against other BART officers who he says used racial slurs against BART riders and may have violated their rights.

On Tuesday evening, protestors passed out leaflets at the Fruitvale station calling on commuters to boycott BART Wednesday to honor Grant.

Funeral services for Grant are scheduled for Wednesday.
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