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Old 01-12-2009, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Charleston, WV
3,106 posts, read 7,376,777 times
Reputation: 845

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60 Minutes reports the crazy increase in oil/ gas prices in 2008 was NOT a wild swing in supply & demand, gauging by oil execs, etc... it was speculation by our good buddies on Wall Street. It was a speculative bubble which ended when Wall St. got scared off by the Feds.

Oil is bought and sold on the commodities futures market. Dan Gilligan, president of the Petroleum Marketers Association, says
60 to 70 % of the oil contracts in the futures markets are held by speculative entities, not companies that use oil or the oil companies.

PMA members said the costs of oil went up even though the supply also increased. Hedge fund manager Michael Masters found that investors putting money in the futures markets was driving the price up, not a lack of supply. He also said the U.S. Department of Energy's statistics show that if the markets had been working properly, the price of oil should have been going down, not up.

A report by MIT analyzed world oil production and consumption and concluded supply and demand could not have caused the increase in oil prices.

Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?, 60 Minutes: Speculation Affected Oil Price Swings More Than Supply And Demand - CBS News
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:14 AM
 
272 posts, read 408,087 times
Reputation: 102
gee what a surprise, Enron was involved in the oil scam, Enron and the Oil companies were all the biggest donators to Bush's campaign back in 2000

America has been robbed and hijacked the last 8 years, the Texas Oil Mafia succeeded in their goal of hijacking america and stuffing their pockets at the expense of the average sucker American

And the best part is all these criminals get bail out money, they **** up our country and they get rewarded, America has been hijacked by these criminals on wall street and the Texas mafia
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:30 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,005 posts, read 12,597,924 times
Reputation: 8925
>Texas Oil Mafia succeeded in their goal of hijacking<

If Obama doesnt stand up to congress. (such as the no earmarks statements he made. vs congress "wanting to put its own stamp" on the stimulus bill. We are about to get hijacked by the DC mafia.

"wanting to put its own stamp" means earmarks like navy bases in West Virginia.

Congrats USA. We traded one set of hijackers for a new set. Of course in 4 or 8 years... another set. They just play to opposite sides of the field.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:30 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 6,688,502 times
Reputation: 1216
Longer term (years), the world's aggregate supply and demand determine the prices. Shorter term, wars (esp. MidEastern ones) and speculation can play an important role.

BTW, if you think the oil companies have hijacked USA, look at the profit rates of many others industries (like Pharma) that are much higher than those in the oil industry. It is just eaasier and more fashionable to bash only oil (i am not saying they do not deserve it).

Every industry here is out to make it easier on themselves by buying off dems and reps - industries win regardless of who is elected.

Last edited by calmdude; 01-12-2009 at 08:25 AM..
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,224,933 times
Reputation: 7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by vec101 View Post
60 Minutes reports the crazy increase in oil/ gas prices in 2008 was NOT a wild swing in supply & demand, gauging by oil execs, etc... it was speculation by our good buddies on Wall Street. It was a speculative bubble which ended when Wall St. got scared off by the Feds.

Oil is bought and sold on the commodities futures market. Dan Gilligan, president of the Petroleum Marketers Association, says
60 to 70 % of the oil contracts in the futures markets are held by speculative entities, not companies that use oil or the oil companies.


PMA members said the costs of oil went up even though the supply also increased. Hedge fund manager Michael Masters found that investors putting money in the futures markets was driving the price up, not a lack of supply. He also said the U.S. Department of Energy's statistics show that if the markets had been working properly, the price of oil should have been going down, not up.

A report by MIT analyzed world oil production and consumption and concluded supply and demand could not have caused the increase in oil prices.

Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?, 60 Minutes: Speculation Affected Oil Price Swings More Than Supply And Demand - CBS News

If this were a new process I could see the point here, however this investment strategy has existed for decades. Why the specific sudden jolt in pricing due to a previously existing process?
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,825,871 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmdude View Post
Longer term (years), the world's aggeegate supply and demand deternine the prices. Shorter term, wars (esp. MidEastern ones) and speculation can play an important role.

BTW, if you think the oil companies have hijacked USA, look at the profit rates of many others industries (like Pharma) that are much higher than those in the oil industry. It is just eaasier and more fashionable to bash only oil (i am not saying they do not deserve it).

Every industry here is out to make it easier on themselves by buying off dems and reps - industries win regardless of who is elected.
I am not aware of a middleman such as the speculators driving up the price of drugs. No doubt that drugs are high priced here in the US yet cheaper in other countries. Bush, at one time, tried to prosecute seniors who bought their medications from Canida. So Bush was all around an advocate for the average Joe.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,140 posts, read 2,203,527 times
Reputation: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmdude View Post
Longer term (years), the world's aggeegate supply and demand deternine the prices. Shorter term, wars (esp. MidEastern ones) and speculation can play an important role.

BTW, if you think the oil companies have hijacked USA, look at the profit rates of many others industries (like Pharma) that are much higher than those in the oil industry. It is just eaasier and more fashionable to bash only oil (i am not saying they do not deserve it).

Every industry here is out to make it easier on themselves by buying off dems and reps - industries win regardless of who is elected.
Look into commodities. Seriously, look it up.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:10 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 6,688,502 times
Reputation: 1216
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
I am not aware of a middleman such as the speculators driving up the price of drugs. No doubt that drugs are high priced here in the US yet cheaper in other countries. Bush, at one time, tried to prosecute seniors who bought their medications from Canida. So Bush was all around an advocate for the average Joe.
I am not defending Bush (I voted Obama - will not heistate to vote the other way if he screws up) - just saying that if we are to blame an industry, let us honestly look at others also. Not that oil is not to blame. The speculators were in the Finance industry and we have seen how good those guys are in terms of knowing how the economy is doing. Also, the speculators lost a boatload of money with the recent oil price collapse - which is fine by me. It is no secret that, for obvious reasons, oil and defense did well under Bush.

Last edited by calmdude; 01-12-2009 at 09:18 AM..
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:12 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 6,688,502 times
Reputation: 1216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kereczr View Post
Look into commodities. Seriously, look it up.
Pl tell me what is on your mind....
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,140 posts, read 2,203,527 times
Reputation: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmdude View Post
Pl tell me what is on your mind....
They work differently than other industries. They aren't suppose to make a killing selling it every gallon, or w/e it may be. wiki it. It is made up for in sheer bulk and necessity.
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