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Old 02-10-2009, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,188,106 times
Reputation: 6963

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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
... "Red States of America" would be without any real intellectual base and they would fall deeply behind the "Blue States of America" in all aspects of Research, Development, (the main military labs are in highly blue regions, like Lawrence-Livermore) Science and Technology. It's foolish to think that a country without an academic base would ever succeed in the long-term, and that's exactly what the "Red States of America" would be.
Shucks-a-fire! Who need those terrorist loving, anti-american, commie elitists anyway?

 
Old 02-10-2009, 02:07 PM
 
2,027 posts, read 4,209,874 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Many hands played part in Isolationism. Hoover having one of the biggest roles with the Hawley-Smoot despite appeal of 38 nations and 1028 American economists. It might be better if it's more accurate to send it to the University of San Diego History Dept

U.S. Isolationism 1921-33
U.S. Isolationism 1934
Isolationism


In fact most of the nation was embracing isolationism and FDR never committed (publicly at least) to the league of nations.
That's fair, the policy of isolationism was embraced by almost the entire nation. However, it wasn't the liberals who berated Roosevelt for breaking this isolationist policy after Pearl Harbor, it was the conservatives. Most of the historical revisionists at the time who tried to blame Roosevelt for Pearl Harbor in the first place were conservatives. FDR did lie, in a sense. During re-election, if he'd come out against the policy of isolationism a conservative would have been elected and there's no telling what would have happened at that point. Would they have just let Japan alone after Pearl Harbor? Would that have even been the best course? No, I explain it in my paper which apparently you don't want to read. Whatever, I don't care, my paper just has all of this information compacted and explained.
 
Old 02-10-2009, 10:42 PM
 
Location: NC
9,984 posts, read 10,394,292 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
You ignored the most critical of times during isolationism.



Isolationism response
Isolation kept us out of foreign entanglements for the better part of 2 centuries. In world war II we were attacked and responded we did not go looking for trouble or try to stir the pot, but defended ourselfs when the time came. That was what the US's moral highground was based on anyway and the reason WWII is often refered to as the last just war. Nowadays we just go around geting into conflicts with scant bases. The Gulf of Tonkin, and Saddams WMDs were illegitimate excuses for war and largely the product of an interventionist and world police foreign policy. Isolationism can be taken to an extreme and we should always keep an eye on the world, but at the same time we should not go looking for trouble, try to be the world cop, or get involved uninvited into conflicts that have nothing to do with us.
 
Old 02-11-2009, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,481,395 times
Reputation: 4185
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangodoodles View Post
FDR did lie, in a sense. During re-election, if he'd come out against the policy of isolationism a conservative would have been elected and there's no telling what would have happened at that point. Would they have just let Japan alone after Pearl Harbor?
They wouldn't have provoked Pearl Harbor by sticking their thumbs in Japan's eye to begin with, most likely.
 
Old 02-11-2009, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,481,395 times
Reputation: 4185
Isolationism is a myth.

Japan from about 1600 to about 1853 is an example of a country in isolation--no trade at all, no immigration, no emigration, nothing. No notable American ever espoused such a concept.

People who are smeared as "isolationists" were in fact patriots who believed in the Founding Fathers' ideals of neutrality in foreign affairs.
 
Old 02-11-2009, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,791,864 times
Reputation: 24863
Back to the OP - We do need a divorce. Like a successful businessman enamored of his latest trophy girl and dropping his domineering wife, we will give you West Texas and keep everything else.
 
Old 02-11-2009, 10:23 AM
 
2,027 posts, read 4,209,874 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
They wouldn't have provoked Pearl Harbor by sticking their thumbs in Japan's eye to begin with, most likely.
You are totally disregarding the historical context. Japan was conquering nations left and right. We stationed some of our military in the Philipines because they were our protectorate and we wanted to protect them from Japan. Japan now lives with this myth that the U.S. didn't negotiate in good faith. That's a load of bull. The only negotiation Japan would have accepted would have included them keeping the countries they conquered. Hmm, wasn't Hitler promised that he could keep the countries he conquered so long as he didn't expand further? See any parallels? Roosevelt knew that to appease the Japanese in the same way that France and England appeased Nazi Germany would NEVER work. Japan would continue to conquer. You seem to also fail to understand the Japanese mindset at the time which factors in quite a bit.

The creation story/myth of basically gave the Japanese that they were better and more special than all other people (especially other Asians). In the creation story they were created specifically by the gods which would probably give anyone a feeling of superiority. They conquered Korea and killed any parents taught teaching their children to speak Korean instead of Japanese (I know an elderly nun whose father was killed for this offense), they conquered China and wreaked havoc in the "Forgotten Holocaust" of WWII, the Rape of Nanking, where they literally threw babies in the air and caught them on their bayonets, made parents rape their children, raped children with their bayonets, and raped and pillaged their way through thousands of corpses. Japan still hasn't taken responsiblity for this action and it has been relegated to one paragraph in their history books (approved by the government, of course) that blames most of the atrocities on "Chinese guerillas." Not to mention the pleasure slaves, they made Korean and Chinese women prostitutes for the Imperial Army. Japan's reign in Asia really was the Second Holocaust of WWII.

Did you know that they planned multiple terrorist attacks on the U.S.? One such attack included the idea to send hot air balloons with incendiary devices attached into the atmosphere and hopefully catch the trees along the whole West Coast on fire. Another was to fly planes over major West Coast cities and release boxes containing bats infected with bubonic plague. But anyway, back to their mindset. After THEY attacked US at Pearl Harbor, we attacked them back. Their mindset is particularly apparent in the Battle of Okinawa where they enacted a plan called "Gyokusai" which translates to "shattered jewel." They believed that committing suicide while trying to take out as many American soldiers as possible was the most honorable thing to do because if the "barbaric Americans" were allowed to invade, they would lose their "special place" with the gods. Even young children and mothers were given weapons and told to attack the soldiers with guns. There's way more to all of it than this but I summed it up a bit so my reply wouldn't be too long. I know you have this weird illness where you blame the U.S. government for everything and anytime you can, you give someone an out so long as it makes the U.S. government look responsible, but in this case, you're just wrong.
 
Old 02-11-2009, 11:19 AM
 
Location: state of enlightenment
2,403 posts, read 5,241,755 times
Reputation: 2500
Dear Conservatives,
Don't you ever stop whining? Haven't you run the country into the ground enough already? Can't you take responsibility for anything? Just shut up and leave already. Take your gun fetishists, your Timothy McVee terrorists, your polygamist coo-coos, your Jesus cultists, your polluting SUVs, your war mongers, your corporate wh@res, your hate mongers, your corporate environmental terrorists, and their foaming at the mouth cheerleaders like Hannity, Coulter, Limbaugh and just leave and let sane adults try and clean up the monumental mess you've created. The country couldn't possibly be any worse off. Don't let the door slam you on the way out.
 
Old 02-11-2009, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,050 posts, read 34,607,468 times
Reputation: 10616
Quote:
Originally Posted by geos View Post
Dear Conservatives,
Don't you ever stop whining? Haven't you run the country into the ground enough already? Can't you take responsibility for anything? Just shut up and leave already. Take your gun fetishists, your Timothy McVee terrorists, your polygamist coo-coos, your Jesus cultists, your polluting SUVs, your war mongers, your corporate wh@res, your hate mongers, your corporate environmental terrorists, and their foaming at the mouth cheerleaders like Hannity, Coulter, Limbaugh and just leave and let sane adults try and clean up the monumental mess you've created. The country couldn't possibly be any worse off. Don't let the door slam you on the way out.
And if they need a witness to sign the divorce papers, I volunteer!
 
Old 02-11-2009, 01:25 PM
 
Location: state of enlightenment
2,403 posts, read 5,241,755 times
Reputation: 2500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Shucks-a-fire! Who need those terrorist loving, anti-american, commie elitists anyway?
Terrrrr-nation paw. F#X "News" is all du edukashun ah needs. Dems raht smart folks! When Bill O'Reilly starts sneerin; that's all the convincin ah needs. Dat moonshon ready yit paw?
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