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I said nothing about people being handed jobs automatically. One must be qualified, for starters. But the days of self-sustained living on a family farm are next to impossible to do in most areas now, and even that still costs money.
Again I'll say - you are not "entitled" to a job. You are not "owed" a job. Its not the governments responsibility to see you get a job. Period
It is YOUR responsibility - if you want a job - you have to get it.
“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
- Warren Buffett, a.k.a. the world's richest man
Actually he's not any more, he dropped to the world's second richest man....Bill gates regained the number one spot in 2009 according to Forbes.
Again I'll say - you are not "entitled" to a job. You are not "owed" a job. Its not the governments responsibility to see you get a job. Period
It is YOUR responsibility - if you want a job - you have to get it.
No..
No one is owed a job.. but everyone SHOULD have the ability to get one..
AND.. it is the governments responsibility to look out for the health of the nation.. to protect it and preserve it's way of life.
There is NOTHING wrong with government providing programs that help those that are down on their luck get the training in order to have the skills to get that job.
There is nothing wrong with the government from helping those that don't currrently have a job with a roof over their heads and food in their belly.. because if you have no roof, no food and no clothes on your back then finding a job is 1000 times harder and more unlikeley....
it's a spiral GD. And if the government allowed for that spiral to keep spiraling downward, this nation wouldn't be where it is today..
As for entitlement.. yes, I'm entitled to a job because I have the skills, teh will and the knowledge to obtain one so I EXPECT to find and get hired at a job whose expecations i can meet. I am also entitled and expect to recieve a LIVING wage for that time, effort and skill I put into a job. I should be able to put a roof over my head, food on the table and clothes on my back for the work that I do.
Yes.. I am entitled to ACCESS to affordable healthcare.. and I expect my government AS THE GOVERINING body out to protect the nation (ie; society) that we live in from social darwisnm.. where only those that HAVE actually can get fairly. I expect the government to protect me and my family from those that control (ie; those with the money) the products from being the only group that actually can obtain said products. Healthcare is NOT only for those with money.. healthcare and access to it means the difference between life and death. Healthcare is NOT a luxury and anyone who thinks it is if , IMO, off their freakin rocker.
I expect, again, my government to make sure that everyone is treated as if they are just important as the next. The guy scrubbind toilest is no less important than the CEO making millions of dolllars.. because he contributes to that CEO's quality of life along with the rest of us. That doesn't mean that that toilet scrubber should be driving a BMW or live in a big house, no.. BUT that toilet scrubber should be entitled to eat, sleep with a roof over his head AND have medicine when he is sick. If those that had ruled without governance or oversight of the federal government we would be living in a society similar to those of the dark ages.. where you had peasents who were treated like animals by those that held the money / power....
No one is more or less valuable or worth less on this planet simply based on the size of their wallet..
And if the government can do somethign the help everyone have the ability to earn a living etc.. then I am all for it...
and those that don't rise to the occassion will forever live in poverty.. and yes, they'll get from teh government.. but they'll always be where they are. And if it helps just one person rise above, then it is worth it..
You and the rest that feel like you think that those that are for these programs are just looking to be handed something for nothing and that is just not true...
You adjust the flat tax rate to assure sufficient revenue for the operation of the country.
THe problem with that is.. 25k is not "taxable".. but um.. $25K is NOT enough to live off of these days.. GD.. THAT is the problem with the flat tax.. those in $30K jobs would be bringing home EVEN LESS and expected to LIVE off that.. I'm not talkign about buying luxuries.. I"m talking roof over head,heat, clothes and food.
I put a statement (in para) because I knew YOU would be the one to object to the numbers I used.
So, I would suggest YOU go back and read the post in question - and (pay attention to the part in these))
doesn't matter GD.. even if you say the first $40K is "not taxable" then you have the issue of raising the percentage even higher on anything above $40K in order to make up the difference of what WON'T be enough with a flat tax!!
Flat tax does not work and IS NOT FAIR.. as again.. it's not about the $$ amount PAID thati s the issue with taxes but the BURDEN!! And right now AND in a flat tax scheme the middle will pay the MOST BURDEN in taxes..
OK, you missed the point I was making. I'm talking about an individual citizens annual income and the tax rate they pay on that income. Lets use a different example...how about an executive that makes $200,000 vs. someone who makes $50,000. They don't need to be an entrepeneur that starts up their own business and makes millions. To make it more interesting, lets say the executive is single and the other person is or was married and has 2-3 children. You get a deduction for each dependent and yet the more dependents you have, the more you use the system (school, pollution, etc.).....the single person uses it the least. The point is, for the most part, the more you make the more you pay in taxes even if it's a flat tax rate and you are able to take advantage of some tax breaks that people who make less don't qualify for. You may work for a corporation or own one (which may also pay taxes) but, we pay our personal income tax as individuals (or families).
Honest, I didn't miss your point.
I'll assume you're a confirmed bachelor with no intention of ever having children. You're paying back the school that was already given you back in the day, and helping cultivate next generation taxpayers. They don't grow on trees, although I've heard shaking a tree was involved. Daddy's little dividend is a fraction of the enormous cost of rearing a taxpayer, ehrr, a child, including the million thankless chores that come along with it. I see no point in complaining unless it's rabbit season on 20k salaries. You have the option to shake trees yourself to reap your $800 refund for spending $3k medical, $2k formula, $1,500 in diapers and changing them for a year. Envy? Daddy's wallet has more pictures than money in it, bless his heart. Labor of love has no monetary benefit. Any notion that having children can somehow be profitable... wildest stretch of the imagination, only if you're willing to horribly neglect them to make it so. I'll shoot anyone who tries it myself, so don't be getting any ideas.
As an individual being short shrift any deductions that others were getting... I paid the man and got to dwell on who gets rewarded by those particular exceptions/ deductions. Why would tax code punish anyone trying to save, and reward people who take out mortgages? Why would tax code reward people for having more children than they can afford, and punish people who wait to afford them? How long would you have to wait to afford them if you're punished for saving? Seems they mean to herd individual filers below certain discretionary income thresholds somewhere... Predatory lending facilitated by Uncle Sam??? Say it ain't so!!!
Recall that 80's axiom- it's not what you make, it's what you keep? My multi mill $ corp employer bragged in it's share holder report that they had gotten pro active with loopholes/depreciation and paid zero taxes. Yes, I said zero. And here y'all are, like crabs in a barrel, squabbling with who ought to pay less!!! If irrational company directives were telling you to play to lose, run machinery into the ground for 3 quarters straight, suppose that would change your grander perspective on this entire subject? Since when is playing to lose capitalism? Since when does what's calling itself the republican/ conservative party DEFEND them?
Greatday- Every generation struggles and always will. Somedays it seems like all humanity is one monotonous growing pain and I've got to chuckle in long view of world history. As an elder in your community, don't short shrift them the full story. You mention hardship, fluffernutter the middle, and concluded with a Disney ending. See how that comes across as condescending? You've pioneered, have something genuine to offer youth, forget the sound byte rules. When they're asking, give them the full scoop. They're not ADD or empty headed as bloggers alude. They're cynical, and rightfully so if you consider what leadership (biz, govt, church, witnessing parents struggle) has offered them as example. Their peers have been on milk cartons every day of their lives. Think about that perspective of the world growing up as such. I didn't have to grow up that way.
Please share in detail how a young single parent managed to get past traumatic events, raise 2 children, put yourself through school without loans, and keep yourself employed without neglecting your children or collapsing from exhaustion. You mentioned extended family was unavailable-- sadly all too common nowadays. The math doesn't add up in 24/7 clock how you could divide yourself 3 ways and still find 6 hrs of sleep. You've walked in the shoes of single mothers. The exception being not burdened with social stigma, 70 cents on the dollar pay and a different pricing system for the same razors (pink vs blue is very $$$). Tristans mommy needs to hear those details, along with any other struggling parents out there.
You did have charity. You simply didn't partake in the hand out version where they punish you for lifting yourself up. That sort of welfare even the poor & social workers have had a huge problem with if anyone cared to hear them out fully. Their criticism wasn't about entitlement or ingratitude. It was, as kids today are demanding-- teach me how! I don't want to be stuck in this diaper! What path can I take to lift myself? You had your church as a safety net enabling you. That's community, and something viewed as suspect & lacking anymore (but that's a whole other thread). So you aren't the army of one you projected in original post, but seems to me there was a healthy relationship between personal responsibility & community responsibility going on. You found a balance. Would you humbly agree it was a meaningful hand up, but not a hand out? Distinguish the difference, because it looks like there's confusion happening there.
You won't hear the nasty tactics of neo cons accusing you of being a communist because the church has been using 'communist' 'socialist' techniques in order to promote stable communities & humane ethics. It's a tool. It has it's limits of efficacy like any other tool would. The right dose is where the practice of medicine lives up to or fails it's true mission, and same can be said of social ills.
Entitlement subject... I could go on a good long while about that subject alone. I paid for an insurance policy. My claim should go through as easily as the payments into that policy. To tell me I'm not entitled to have a standard contract upheld is to as much admit america has been reduced to PT Barnum law of bannana republic, and justice is only for those wealthy enough to mete it out. That's unacceptable. See that 'every man woman and child' for himself mentality I mentioned? It's running amok in our culture.
I had the financial option to abandon America and live abroad. I'd rather fight to the end than jump ship like a sniveling rat. I'm selective about what my energy will feed. This is my expression of leading by example. I've reaped the rewards of america, and if it means it's time to plant a victory garden to stave off inflation with my neighbors, I'll roll up my sleeves and plant. I'm a shareholder. We all are, one way or another, even the guy scrubbing toilets. That's a responsibility as well as birthright. Entitlements, interchangeably used with 'rights', are concomitant with responsibility. Every citizen needs to know that deeper meaning. Abuses of power are ingenuine entitlement, whether that's an arrogant punk on the street, a talking head in broadcast willfully lying, or a CFO romancing legislators with junkets.
It's not a matter of not caring..........conservatives are always accused of this.
It's a matter of caring enough to believe in and know it's long past the time for "tough love" which is harder than throwing up your hands and giving in......and just 'giving'.
Farthur down the path we're heading, those able to give won't be there so those able and expecting to do for themselves will be in much better shape than those still held up by props.
You've asked greatday to tell you step by step HOW he did it.
Since circumstances will never be the same, most will refuse to relate by just saying "well...my siituation is different. I'd guess the basis for his success was based on his attitude that it was his responsibility to get it done.
As far as your 'no man stands alone' argument....of course there are some services, schools & highways , for instance, that we all have the advantage of . Conservatives don't generally disagree with paying taxes for government services that do benefit allwhen there is no better way to have those services available.
As to the op directly....with this mindset, why would we, so far down the ladder,do other than congratulate those that made it so far up the ladder??
The claim that "they' sre all crooks and cheats is so much crap.
Crooks and cheats are scattered throughout every single income and social strata and I seldom see bad motives/methods suspected by any but those that would do it themselves.
It's not a matter of not caring..........conservatives are always accused of this.
It's a matter of caring enough to believe in and know it's long past the time for "tough love" which is harder than throwing up your hands and giving in......and just 'giving'.
Farthur down the path we're heading, those able to give won't be there so those able and expecting to do for themselves will be in much better shape than those still held up by props.
You've asked greatday to tell you step by step HOW he did it.
Since circumstances will never be the same, most will refuse to relate by just saying "well...my siituation is different. I'd guess the basis for his success was based on his attitude that it was his responsibility to get it done.
As far as your 'no man stands alone' argument....of course there are some services, schools & highways , for instance, that we all have the advantage of . Conservatives don't generally disagree with paying taxes for government services that do benefit allwhen there is no better way to have those services available.
As to the op directly....with this mindset, why would we, so far down the ladder,do other than congratulate those that made it so far up the ladder??
The claim that "they' sre all crooks and cheats is so much crap.
Crooks and cheats are scattered throughout every single income and social strata and I seldom see bad motives/methods suspected by any but those that would do it themselves.
My problem with your statements are the one that is underlined.. that benefit "all when there is no better way".
Here's my problem with it;
Those that HAVE "money".. in otherwords, those that, at the end of the day, can pay all their bills, have extra for vacations and that high end car, etc. and still have money to sock away for retirement and a nice savings.. THEY don't seemingly "need" some of the services that this country offers.. such as WIC, Food Stamps, Social Security etc. Seemingly those people do not "benefit" from such services because they will never use them. And, I must add here.. that I have, nor hopefully will never have to use any such services..nor have my parents needed such services. THey think. ..they don't use them, so they are not benefiting from them. That couldn't be further from the truth! They are benefiting from being a member of a society (our nation) that as programs in place that help people lift themselves out of situations. If you took those things away I believe that there would be .. well more homeless on the street, more starving people and children etc etc etc.
Let me give you a positive example of how the system works to help someone. My cousins daughter.. a smart and well educated girl who was involved in many activities in school (played all kinds of sports and participated in alot of school programs).. she was and is a "good girl". She went off to college and , well with a simple slip up of her birth control, ended up pregnant half way through her freshman year of college. She decided to have the baby, finished out the first half of the second school year before coming back to her parents home to have the baby. Father was a jerk...typical.. denied it was his and wants nothing to do with it, nor wants any responsibility. She could care less and decided, with the lovign support of her family, to have her beautiful child (she had the father sign away his rights). She is fortunate enough to have parents and a family system that is supportive emotionally.. but they can't support her AND her child. So, now what is she doing. Well, she is living at home with her parents under their roof and she's filed for assistance.. WIC, etc to help her keep her baby fed and healthy (she has medicaid insurance now). She works a job to support herself and the child and help pay her way in her parents home while going to college and getting her degree via online college. So far it's working. But... lets examine something here.
She is lucky enough to have a family that was supportive. Some woman are not.
She's lucky enough to be able to continue her education BECAUSe she has that support AND because she was able to tap into a support system in place by the government.
She'll get her degree, find a good job and be able to fully support herself and her child without any wIC or food stamps in the future.
What if WIC or FOOD stampes weren't available (or even medicaid). Well, she would have had to drop out of school to work probably a below middle income salary (I'd say around $12/hour if she got a nice office job..but that is good money in her state). Maybe she'd have insurance through her job.. maybe not. Maybe hte extra she'd have to pay to cover her AND her child would eat through her paycheck..which would barely cover the minimum living requirements of shelter, clothes and food. She'd NEVER go anywhere beyond where she is (because in this scenario Government assistance doesn't exist.. remember? Because we ALL don't benefit from it so why have it?).
But WITH food and WIC and government assistance (even if she didn't have her parents to live with) there is a way for her to climb out of it. There are federal student aid (college is al ot more expensive now a days than when GD went to school.. that's important to remember), she would probably have access to child care so she could work through welfare programs, she'd have section 8 housing to keep her sheltered at a price she could afford so that she can work and go to school, she'd have help buying the foods essential to keeping her and her child healthy AND she'd have access to healthcare when she is sick. THIS gives her the ability to actually finish school and move up a station or two in life. If you believe that anything she did was "handed" to her to achieve.. you couldn't be more wrong. It is HER responsibility to use those tools at her disposal to lift herself out of her current station in life. . ANd it's not easy by far!! It is a HUGE undertaking..her odds are good, but not great. WITHOUT those programs, she wouldnt' stand a CHANCE.
An example of someone that used the system to move up in life, is the black actress that was nominated for an Academy Award for playing in that movie DOUBT (she played the mother of the abused boy). She used all the gov't programs in place after having a "woops" and getting pregnant and look where she is now! She worked hard, nothign was handed to her, but tools were given and were there for her to utilize. She did it!
Again, it's not about peoples lack of responsibilty here. NO matter what, assistance or not, we all have a responsibility to make something of ourselves. I'm sorry, but the sense of "community" that GD had the BENEFIT of experiencing doesn't exist for all of us and in all places of our country. GD wouldn't have been here without the CHARITY of others to help him. Did he work any less hard to pull himself out because he recieved charity to help him do it.. hell no.
I think that GD's generation just likes to dismiss mine and younger generations with the "entitlement" word thrown around to discredit them. Again.. I don't feel I'm 'entitled" to a McMansion or a BMW .. I'm not entitled to any of it. I AM however, ENTITLED, as a citizen of this nation to the ABILITY to achieve that level . I AM entitled to ACCESS to healthcare (as if EVERYONE in the WORLD) because healthcare is the difference between life and death.. and I'm certainly entitled to live.. Living is my right given to me, you and everyone elsle by our creator. Some guy behind a desk pushng pencils and watching the bottom line has no right to deny me or anyone that right..
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Daddy's little dividend is a fraction of the enormous cost of rearing a taxpayer, ehrr, a child, including the million thankless chores that come along with it. I see no point in complaining unless it's rabbit season on 20k salaries. You have the option to shake trees yourself to reap your $800 refund for spending $3k medical, $2k formula, $1,500 in diapers and changing them for a year. Envy? Daddy's wallet has more pictures than money in it, bless his heart. Labor of love has no monetary benefit. Any notion that having children can somehow be profitable... wildest stretch of the imagination, only if you're willing to horribly neglect them to make it so. I'll shoot anyone who tries it myself, so don't be getting any ideas.
Seems they mean to herd individual filers below certain discretionary income thresholds somewhere... 
