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While outsourced jobs involving direct interaction with US consumer may be dwndling, the outsourcing trend continues. Many companies now are shifting good jobs - including those in R&D in hi tech - to other countries and this is more disturbing. A lot of the backoffice work has already shifted - we just do not feel it since we do not have any direct interaction. I would worry more about these jobs than lower-paying call center ones. A little known fact here is taht more larger Indian companies are now moving up the food chain and doing higher-value work, while refusing low-end call-center type work. The pressure on them to grow revenue is a lot and doing more value-added work is one way to do it.
H1Bs are a different issue. Many are needed by the US in engineering/CS in good economic times but probably not in these times when US citizens and residents cannot find a job. I think companies need to meet minimum competitive pay standards for H1Bs. Still, I think H1Bs are slightly cheaper than locals, and hence the corporate attraction. At least they are legal and generally well-educated. Companies have lobbyists to ensure cheap labor via large h1b quotas ; I cannot blame the h1b people here for looking for better opportunity - afterall, we have a lot of our people in other countries too.
Companies also complain about how there is a shortage of engineers/scientists - what they really mean is a shortage of cheap engineers/scientists.
Due to complaints from customers who reported they had trouble communicating with Indian agents, Delta stopped routing calls to India-based call centers over the first three months of the year. Delta is moving these jobs back to the U.S., but will keep call centers operating in South Africa and Jamaica where complaints have not been as heavy SLM (Fannie Mae) is moving its overseas operations back to the U.S., pulling jobs from Mexico, India and the Phillippines. Now, we need to start bringing some of the good paying IT jobs back from India. No more HB 1 visas. Delta stops using India call centers: report | U.S. | Reuters
That is certainly good news. Hope more companies do likewise.
I had to call Delta last week - talk about frustrating. Don't know where he was but I had a heck of a time understanding what the guy was saying.
I have never complained to a company about the language problem - guess it just goes to show that we should.
REALLY surprised to see Sallie Mae had operations overseas. I thought they were still a quasi-govt establishment.
If you ever have to call Travelocity, you will speak with Indian agents, no matter your problem, and you probably will, like I did, get shuttled from one to another who are very difficult to understand (but helpful)
However, if you have to change your ticket, they charge you $180.00 to do it (thankfully I can do it thru the airline for $100)
Screw Travelocity, they suck. Dont use them.
I did have an Indian agent at Travelocity once who was very good. I use Travelocity site to check flights, then I call the airline directly saving the $10.00 TC service charge.
I don't think you need a degree from Harvard to be a first class software programmer. There are arguments for and against foreign workers in the linked article. The Programmers Guild, a nonprofit group that promotes the hiring of American-born high-tech workers has caught the attention of Congress. The founder of the group does not believe you need a degree from an ivy league school and come from overseas to be a top notch software programmer. He also believes that foreign workers are less innovative, less likely to present alternatives to management. I've read conflicting reports as to whether foreign IT workers are paid less and therefore depress American wages. The foreign workers mentioned in the article seem to doing okay money wise. With the dire outlook for IT jobs in the U.S., notwithstanding the economy we have now, this is a good issue to politicize. This is a vote getting issue.
Clip:
...members of Congress, have criticized companies like Microsoft and Intel for laying off Americans while retaining visa holders. Google says it will cut 350 workers this year.
...“Not all our own people are able to get good jobs right now,†said Senator Jeff Sessions, Republican of Alabama and one of the members of Congress who oppose temporary work visas.
Mr. Sessions favors broad immigration reform that puts even greater emphasis on admitting people with skills. He even wants to ask visa applicants to take a scholastic aptitude test.
But he opposes temporary workers, whom he argues have incentive to work for less and return to their countries to share what they have learned. This puts him at odds with tech companies.
“They need to step up and look at what’s in the national interest,†he said. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/12/bu...gewanted=print
I don't think you need a degree from Harvard to be a first class software programmer. There are arguments for and against foreign workers in the linked article. The Programmers Guild, a nonprofit group that promotes the hiring of American-born high-tech workers has caught the attention of Congress. The founder of the group does not believe you need a degree from an ivy league school and come from overseas to be a top notch software programmer. He also believes that foreign workers are less innovative, less likely to present alternatives to management. I've read conflicting reports as to whether foreign IT workers are paid less and therefore depress American wages. The foreign workers mentioned in the article seem to doing okay money wise. With the dire outlook for IT jobs in the U.S., notwithstanding the economy we have now, this is a good issue to politicize. This is a vote getting issue.
Wow, do you work in the computing field? The Ivies are one of the WORST choices for Engineering/CS degrees. Good for Lib Arts and Natural Sciences as well as graduate/professional degrees, but they have no idea how to run hands on degrees like engineering. So, of course it isn't necessary to have an Ivy degree... in fact, it's less desired than coming out of a public school w/ a good engineering program.
Now, I will speak from experience of grading folks' code (I teach computer science at GT). Let me tell you: many of the students can remember the syntax, but don't get the actual logic of why it does what it does. They can remember SQL commands, but ask them HOW to build a database from the ground up, or at LEAST how it works speedily and efficiently, and they look at you with a blank face. I blame it on a school system obsessed with humanities and liberal arts, focused on remembering facts and phrases instead of the logical thought behind the results, and other things. Not to mention, many of the CS programs are dumbed down due to the tech bubble now-a-days. We're one of the few good ones that weed out the bad students because we want to keep our reputation. Sloppy work really is a problem within the realm of CS these days, and it needs to be fixed by introducing logical thinking and not just "remembering facts."
That's what I hear from many on here: "remember your multiplication tables," "remember how to do multiplication," etc. etc.. Just remember, don't think about why it works. It just does. And, that type of "magic box" theory is why people aren't learning as they should.
Good, they should move these call center jobs back and put call centers in states with very high unemployment like Michigan, South Carolina, and California.
My metro area has very high unemployment & a new call center recently opened around here. They were hiring for 100 positions, but ended up receiving nearly 5,000 applications.
I don't believe call centers are using H1B visa holders. They are simply offshoring the entire call center.
I had to deal with Earthlink today and I believe they have their call center in India (at least the people I spoke to sounded like they were located there). The second time I called, they were exceptionally slow in answering the phone. I must have waited over 20 minutes to talk to a tech person.
Wow, do you work in the computing field? The Ivies are one of the WORST choices for Engineering/CS degrees. Good for Lib Arts and Natural Sciences as well as graduate/professional degrees, but they have no idea how to run hands on degrees like engineering. So, of course it isn't necessary to have an Ivy degree... in fact, it's less desired than coming out of a public school w/ a good engineering program.
Now, I will speak from experience of grading folks' code (I teach computer science at GT). Let me tell you: many of the students can remember the syntax, but don't get the actual logic of why it does what it does. They can remember SQL commands, but ask them HOW to build a database from the ground up, or at LEAST how it works speedily and efficiently, and they look at you with a blank face. I blame it on a school system obsessed with humanities and liberal arts, focused on remembering facts and phrases instead of the logical thought behind the results, and other things. Not to mention, many of the CS programs are dumbed down due to the tech bubble now-a-days. We're one of the few good ones that weed out the bad students because we want to keep our reputation. Sloppy work really is a problem within the realm of CS these days, and it needs to be fixed by introducing logical thinking and not just "remembering facts."
That's what I hear from many on here: "remember your multiplication tables," "remember how to do multiplication," etc. etc.. Just remember, don't think about why it works. It just does. And, that type of "magic box" theory is why people aren't learning as they should.
Agree - I was in the IT field and had similar experiences. Students are trained to be good workers who merely follow instructions or a programming language. However, I must say that many fresh students - including foreign ones that were different. Some (foreign/US) were quite bright and if guided properly, produced amazing results. In programming, a very good programmer can be worth 3-4 average ones - and we had a few of those from both US and other countries. The linked article's author (post 14) needs to meet some of the non-Ivy foreign workers in the Si-valley who have started a bunch of companies - many quite successful.
Wow, do you work in the computing field? The Ivies are one of the WORST choices for Engineering/CS degrees. Good for Lib Arts and Natural Sciences as well as graduate/professional degrees, but they have no idea how to run hands on degrees like engineering. So, of course it isn't necessary to have an Ivy degree... in fact, it's less desired than coming out of a public school w/ a good engineering program.
No, I don't, but DH has a masters in CS, not from an Ivy League school. I'm the Liberal Arts person so I read a lot, including info on the tech industry, and I have a live in source of info. LOL
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