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Who hurt you so bad, that such a cold, callous thing could be typed with such ease? How damaged can a person be, that she is cool with baby murder? God help us all.
I was being facetious.
But listen, really listen to me, ok? If you want a real answer, I'll give you a real answer, not that I think it will change anyone's mind.
Anyone who is against abortion obviously knows nothing about the foster care system in this country and how many children and adolescents suffer as a result.
It basically boils down to this, what's worse: removing a clump of cells before maturation OR having a person suffer mental and physical anguish throughout the course of their life because their mother wasn't allowed to choose the best time for her to be a mother AND to have that same person, the same unwanted child, grow-up and possibly take on criminal behavior as a result of being a dysfunctional person? What's the better choice for the individual and the community? Hmm...seems pretty clear to me.
Making abortions illegal will only harm the middle class and the poor and disadvantaged. Women are not going to stop seeking abortions just because they become illegal. The rich will always be able to find a doctor willing to perform this procedure, legal or not, for a price. The rest of society who do not want to bring a baby into this world will be forced to turn to dangerous medical methods to rid themselves of the child or be forced to have a baby they neither want nor can in some cases afford. And if you think "Well, good, she deserved to get pregnant and to have this burden because she was too stupid or immature to be careful" just think of it this way, WHO do you think picks up the bill for some of these people? Us of course, the taxpayers. If abortion was made illegal and the taxpayers were forced to pay the bills of those who could not afford it YOUR taxes would skyrocket.
Letting women choose to have a SAFE and LEGAL abortion is really the best for everyone involved, the woman, the child and the community. Only worrying about a child's right to come to fruition when thinking about whether abortion is ethical or not is REALLY short-sighted when you think of the bigger picture.
Unfortunately, there are few safe places for an unwanted ethnic baby.
Are you a social worker? I am. I see this kind of thing ALL THE TIME. Unfortunately, the most of the babies and children up for adoption are not white and are unwanted. Also, many children put up for adoption suffer from physical and mental handicaps because the mother was on drugs and that's why she put her child up for adoption in the first place. If abortion is made illegal we will have tons more flooding into the system than we already do.
Did you know that in Baltimore, we were so overrun with children that we had them sleeping IN OUR ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES for a time because we had nowhere else to house them? Do you realize that if infants form poor attachments, which is often the case when put into foster care, they form Reactive Attachment Disorder which keeps them from bonding with anyone, and as such are difficult and fussy and no one wants them? Do you realize that there is a short window for infants, and once they pass a certain maturation level no one wants them anymore?
I'm not saying adoptees can't find good homes, I'm saying that the number of possible adoptees is WAY out of proportion to the amount of people who want to adopt them. I'm also saying that the abuse babies and children suffer is way of of proportion to the non-pain they would feel if aborted.
If you have seen what I have seen (horror stories like children being sexually abused from infancy), you wouldn't be quick to advocate adoption as a solution, either. There are sickos out there who like (for reasons unknown to me) to abuse children and people who don't care about the child, but just want the paycheck they get every month from keeping the child and these sickos outweigh the number of good people who just want to be parents.
The odds are not in favor for an unwanted non-white infant to get a good home. In fact, the odds are MORE in favor of being adopted by someone who will abuse the child.
God gave us free will; the ability to accept or reject his son Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior. Besides, this world is temporary, eternity, is, well....eternal.
By the way, mocking God is really cool; bet your "partner" is really proud of.
He is proud of it. Mocking God is GREAT!
And I find it odd that you are so against abortion but had no problem saying you wanted to come and "abort me".
You still have not answered any of our questions by the way. Just bring more faith based things into it. Go figure.
Huh? As a parent, I would lay down my life for my child, as would my wife.
I would too...for my kids who are here. Not for a child that might be if I wait 9 months and nothing goes wrong or I don't die first killing us both and leaving the rest of my family behind to pick up the pieces. I'm more important than a fertilized egg and I'm not embarrassed to say so. If it makes you feel good to think your somehow more "moral" than me then that's fine. I don't need the validation of strangers on the internet.
Besides, I think you like to cause controversy more than you actually believe what you say. I have lots of experience with people like that.
But listen, really listen to me, ok? If you want a real answer, I'll give you a real answer, not that I think it will change anyone's mind.
Anyone who is against abortion obviously knows nothing about the foster care system in this country and how many children and adolescents suffer as a result.
It basically boils down to this, what's worse: removing a clump of cells before maturation OR having a person suffer mental and physical anguish throughout the course of their life because their mother wasn't allowed to choose the best time for her to be a mother AND to have that same person, the same unwanted child, grow-up and possibly take on criminal behavior as a result of being a dysfunctional person? What's the better choice for the individual and the community? Hmm...seems pretty clear to me.
Making abortions illegal will only harm the middle class and the poor and disadvantaged. Women are not going to stop seeking abortions just because they become illegal. The rich will always be able to find a doctor willing to perform this procedure, legal or not, for a price. The rest of society who do not want to bring a baby into this world will be forced to turn to dangerous medical methods to rid themselves of the child or be forced to have a baby they neither want nor can in some cases afford. And if you think "Well, good, she deserved to get pregnant and to have this burden because she was too stupid or immature to be careful" just think of it this way, WHO do you think picks up the bill for some of these people? Us of course, the taxpayers. If abortion was made illegal and the taxpayers were forced to pay the bills of those who could not afford it YOUR taxes would skyrocket.
Letting women choose to have a SAFE and LEGAL abortion is really the best for everyone involved, the woman, the child and the community. Only worrying about a child's right to come to fruition when thinking about whether abortion is ethical or not is REALLY short-sighted when you think of the bigger picture.
Unfortunately, there are few safe places for an unwanted ethnic baby.
Are you a social worker? I am. I see this kind of thing ALL THE TIME. Unfortunately, the most of the babies and children up for adoption are not white and are unwanted. Also, many children put up for adoption suffer from physical and mental handicaps because the mother was on drugs and that's why she put her child up for adoption in the first place. If abortion is made illegal we will have tons more flooding into the system than we already do.
Did you know that in Baltimore, we were so overrun with children that we had them sleeping IN OUR ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES for a time because we had nowhere else to house them? Do you realize that if infants form poor attachments, which is often the case when put into foster care, they form Reactive Attachment Disorder which keeps them from bonding with anyone, and as such are difficult and fussy and no one wants them? Do you realize that there is a short window for infants, and once they pass a certain maturation level no one wants them anymore?
I'm not saying adoptees can't find good homes, I'm saying that the number of possible adoptees is WAY out of proportion to the amount of people who want to adopt them. I'm also saying that the abuse babies and children suffer is way of of proportion to the non-pain they would feel if aborted.
If you have seen what I have seen (horror stories like children being sexually abused from infancy), you wouldn't be quick to advocate adoption as a solution, either. There are sickos out there who like (for reasons unknown to me) to abuse children and people who don't care about the child, but just want the paycheck they get every month from keeping the child and these sickos outweigh the number of good people who just want to be parents.
The odds are not in favor for an unwanted non-white infant to get a good home. In fact, the odds are MORE in favor of being adopted by someone who will abuse the child.
Almost everyone of your posts is filled with absurd generalizations and stereotypes. I have two friends in Los Angeles, both women as a matter of fact, (by the way, you ignored my post yesterday about women making up the overwhelming majority of those in the pro-life movement) that are social workers and pro-life. They can't justify murdering an innocent child, simply because it might not have an x-box. We're not going to agree on this issue, my belief is rooted in my Christianity, while yours is in secularism. Bottom line: One of the choices that you support, when performed correctly, results in death 100% of the time. You support this. I stand for life. it's late, I'm going to bed. 'night.
Almost everyone of your posts is filled with absurd generalizations and stereotypes. I have two friends in Los Angeles, both women as a matter of fact, (by the way, you ignored my post yesterday about women making up the overwhelming majority of those in the pro-life movement) that are social workers and pro-life. They can't justify murdering an innocent child, simply because it might not have an x-box. We're not going to agree on this issue, my belief is rooted in my Christianity, while yours is in secularism. Bottom line: One of the choices that you support, when performed correctly, results in death 100% of the time. You support this. I stand for life. it's late, I'm going to bed. 'night.
In other words "I have nothing to defend my extreme point of view. They're ganging up on me! Gotta bust it out of here and pray to God to come running down and save me!!!!"
You do not stand for life if you think it is ok to take the mothers life for a fetus.
Almost everyone of your posts is filled with absurd generalizations and stereotypes. I have two friends in Los Angeles, both women as a matter of fact, (by the way, you ignored my post yesterday about women making up the overwhelming majority of those in the pro-life movement) that are social workers and pro-life. They can't justify murdering an innocent child, simply because it might not have an x-box. We're not going to agree on this issue, my belief is rooted in my Christianity, while yours is in secularism. Bottom line: One of the choices that you support, when performed correctly, results in death 100% of the time. You support this. I stand for life. it's late, I'm going to bed. 'night.
1) You know, you should really visit a Group Home sometime. They are the new orphanages. I would love to see how you feel after witnessing how emotionally messed up these children are.
2) I don't care about the demographics of the pro-life movement.
3) I have no idea what post you're referring to. If you link it here, I will address it.
You want proof of my statements? lol, this is really too easy.
Quote:
Cases reviewed as the trial progressed revealed children who had suffered continuous sexual and physical abuse or neglect in foster homes known to be inadequate by the Department. Cases included that of sexual abuse of young girls by their foster fathers, and that of a young girl who contracted gonorrhea of the throat as a result of sexual abuse in an unlicenced foster home.
In Louisiana, a study conducted in conjunction with a civil suit found that 21 percent of abuse or neglect cases involved foster homes.
In another Louisiana case, one in which thousands of pages of evidence were reviewed, and extensive testimony and depositions were taken, it was discovered that hundreds of foster children had been shipped out of the state to Texas.
Stephen Berzon of the Children's Defense Fund explained the shocking findings of the court before a Congressional subcommitte, saying: "children were physically abused, handcuffed, beaten, chained, and tied up, kept in cages, and overdrugged with psychotropic medication for institutional convenience."
In Missouri, a 1981 study found that 57 percent of the sample children were placed in foster care settings that put them "at the very least at a high risk of abuse or neglect."
A later report issued in 1987 found that 25 percent of the children in the Missouri sample group had been victims of "abuse or inappropriate punishment."
The most troubling result of the Kansas City review was the level of abuse, undetected or unreported, in foster homes. 25% of the children in the sample were the subject of abuse or inappropriate punishment. 88% of those reports were not properly investigated.
References:
United States District Court, D. Maryland, L.J. By and Through Darr v. Massinga, decision, Civ. No. JH-84-4409, September 27, 1988. F.Supp. 508 (D.Md. 1988). Excerpts are provided describing the sampling methodology and findings.
Casereading conducted by Theodore J. Stein in conjunction with Del A. v. Edwin Edwards, (1988).
Testimony of Stephen P. Berzon, Foster Care: Problems and Issues, hearing, Subcommittee on Select Education, Committee on Education and Labor, U.S. House of Representatives, September 8, 1976. (Testimony soon to be placed on line).
David Kaplovitz and Louis Genevie, Foster Children in Jackson County, Missouri: A Statistical Analysis of Files Maintained by the Division of Family Services, (1981).
Testimony of Marcia Robinson Lowry, Foster Care, Child Welfare, and Adoption Reforms, Joint Hearings before the Subcommittee on Public Assistance and Unemployment Compensation of the Committee on Ways and Means and the Select Committee on Children, Youth and Families, U.S. House of Representatives, April 13 and 28, May 12, 1988.
I have TONS more data, if you want me to go on. But you go ahead and keep advocating that getting gonorrhea from your foster father at the age of 12 is MORE humane than being aborted when you're a clump of cells.
I weep for this country's lack of common sense. It's really sad when emotionality reigns over practicality.
1) You know, you should really visit a Group Home sometime. They are the new orphanages. I would love to see how you feel after witnessing how emotionally messed up these children are.
2) I don't care about the demographics of the pro-life movement.
3) I have no idea what post you're referring to. If you link it here, I will address it.
You want proof of my statements? lol, this is really too easy.
I have TONS more data, if you want me to go on. But you go ahead and keep advocating that getting gonorrhea from your foster father at the age of 12 is MORE humane than being aborted when you're a clump of cells.
I weep for this country's lack of common sense. It's really sad when emotionality reigns over practicality.
I am not disputing your data, but isn't fair to say that the children in foster care where not placed their voluntarily by their parent(s) and that their parent(s) still have their parental rights?
I ask this because as someone who has adopted, and has friends who have attempted to adopt through the foster care system I find that there are a lot of misconceptions about foster care - namely all the children are available for adoption and that noone wants them.
The truth about foster care is that the government has f'ed up an already f'ed up situation. The government agency points a higher priority on returning children to abusive homes then finding them loving adoptive homes while they are still young enough and relatively unscarred enough to thrive.
I am not disputing your data, but isn't fair to say that the children in foster care where not placed their voluntarily by their parent(s) and that their parent(s) still have their parental rights?
I ask this because as someone who has adopted, and has friends who have attempted to adopt through the foster care system I find that there are a lot of misconceptions about foster care - namely all the children are available for adoption and that noone wants them.
The truth about foster care is that the government has f'ed up an already f'ed up situation. The government agency points a higher priority on returning children to abusive homes then finding them loving adoptive homes while they are still young enough and relatively unscarred enough to thrive.
True. I do believe we should fund foster homes and get more loving people in there. It should be harder to become a social worker and it should also be required you have a clean background before you become a worker.
It is so sad either which way if it comes down to these two. Abortion or getting stuck in a horrible foster home.
I am not disputing your data, but isn't fair to say that the children in foster care where not placed their voluntarily by their parent(s) and that their parent(s) still have their parental rights?
I ask this because as someone who has adopted, and has friends who have attempted to adopt through the foster care system I find that there are a lot of misconceptions about foster care - namely all the children are available for adoption and that noone wants them.
The truth about foster care is that the government has f'ed up an already f'ed up situation. The government agency points a higher priority on returning children to abusive homes then finding them loving adoptive homes while they are still young enough and relatively unscarred enough to thrive.
You're right. The parents do have "dibs" so to speak, on their kids. You are also right that the foster care system is so f'ed up, that they try to return the kids to an abusive situation rather than put them in foster care.
And all these reasons are exactly why I'm FOR abortion. The system is already overloaded with children, can you imagine the explosion of homeless, unwanted and/or abused children if abortion was made illegal?
I'm not trying to be mean, self-righteous or didactic, but people who think that outlawing abortion is more humane than stopping unwanted pregnancies is just a short-sighted and ill-educated view. I can't understand how a person could think stopping an unwanted pregnancy with the way the foster care system is today is more humane than letting it suffer through a life of abuse. And, no, not all kids get abused, but is it ok to let that 57% that do, suffer horribly? Because that's what it amounts to, whether that result is intentional or not.
True. I do believe we should fund foster homes and get more loving people in there. It should be harder to become a social worker and it should also be required you have a clean background before you become a worker.
It is so sad either which way if it comes down to these two. Abortion or getting stuck in a horrible foster home.
I sincerely wish the best for everyone.
As a social worker, to work with children, at least in Maryland, you have to have a full background check and get fingerprinted and have your record run through the system. You also have to have your license in order to practice, which means the powers that be, once again, check your criminal record and you have to provide legal documentation for any criminal activity (that you served your time, met all the qualifications of your probation, etc.). I know all this because I am a social worker and I had to jump through all these hoops for a DWI that I got FIVE years ago. When I went to apply to the state of NJ, I had to go through the same application process. Most social workers have their Master's Degree, they're not stupid degenerates who don't give a F. However, the work is grueling and it's very easy to get burnt out. That doesn't excuse any social worker for mistakes they may make, but the system wants to get the kids pushed through so fast, my guess is that important things are overlooked in placement, and the truth is, there just aren't a lot of GOOD people who want foster kids. Yes, it's sad.
In any event, this is why I'm pro-abortion.
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